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  Talk Elections
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  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
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Author Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)  (Read 39301 times)
Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #250 on: October 20, 2015, 10:29:22 pm »

Nay
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Leinad
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« Reply #251 on: October 20, 2015, 11:17:37 pm »

AYE!

Now it's tied 9-9 by my count, with 7 still to vote. Come on, people, side with human rights and against unchallengeable government!
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #252 on: October 20, 2015, 11:25:31 pm »

I will do my best to make sure voters are aware next weekend of who is respecting The People's will and who isn't.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #253 on: October 21, 2015, 10:05:46 am »
« Edited: October 21, 2015, 10:12:25 am by Duke »

Nay

This entire thing has gotten out of hand. So now having a government is contrary to human rights?

If men were angels....then maybe it wouldn't be necessary. And I've spoken for The People all my life in Atlasia. I won't let anyone start trying to define what They want. They've never been one to give up, one to call for division rather than unity, one to pick up their toys and walk away when things aren't as they please. That's all this amendment encourages. Don't agree, then leave! You can do it without any penalty! But that's never been what The People stand for. The People are fighters. They fight to change the government with pitch forks, love and comradery, not through an orderly vote for secession. That would be a boring way out.

Secession and the like has a place in this game but no place in the constitution. Otherwise, secession loses its teeth. Who cares if someone leaves if it's legal? How do they make a point? I don't understand the supporters except that it's purely ideology and not practical. I do appreciate Leiland at least being candid about that fact. Tongue
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #254 on: October 21, 2015, 11:15:57 am »
« Edited: October 21, 2015, 11:18:20 am by Lincoln Republican »

How much longer is this secessionist circus going to go on?

Until the secessionist advocates keep on offering amendment after amendment after amendment until they get their own way?

If the right of secession is embedded in the constitution, we will have malcontents and jokesters trying to take advantage of this law every second week, and attempting to disrupt the nation and to break up the country.   
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #255 on: October 21, 2015, 11:48:17 am »

How much longer is this secessionist circus going to go on?

Until the secessionist advocates keep on offering amendment after amendment after amendment until they get their own way?
...

We are during a principle vote right now...which was originally suggested by myself and others over a week ago.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #256 on: October 21, 2015, 12:45:05 pm »

Aye under Tmth or Leinad's amendments.

The right of self government must be respected even by national level governments.

Spain take note and let Catalonia peacefully go.
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #257 on: October 21, 2015, 12:57:29 pm »

Lmao oakvale.


I honestly dont care about this issue.
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VPH
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« Reply #258 on: October 21, 2015, 02:39:01 pm »

Aye for game reform purposes.

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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #259 on: October 22, 2015, 02:34:35 am »

After some thought:
Nay
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #260 on: October 22, 2015, 07:34:07 am »

Yup! Grin
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #261 on: October 22, 2015, 08:32:11 am »

AYE - 12
NAY - 10
ABSTAIN - 0

AYEs won, so secession will be allowed in the new text drafted by the Constitutional Convention.

I propose that now we:

- hold a 24-hours debate on the number of regions;
- hold a 48-hours principle vote on the number of regions (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, >5 the options)
- then discussing amendments about secession and number of regions (saying that we are allowing secession it's not enough, we should clarify some things. The same for regions: we should draft the new regions map).


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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #262 on: October 22, 2015, 11:24:58 am »

While I voted against allowing secession, it is now the duty of every delegate to respect the democratic process and work to build a fair and straightforward framework by which Regions can separate from Atlasia. It is time to lay this issue to rest.

I propose that now we:

- hold a 24-hours debate on the number of regions;
- hold a 48-hours principle vote on the number of regions (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, >5 the options)
- then discussing amendments about secession and number of regions (saying that we are allowing secession it's not enough, we should clarify some things. The same for regions: we should draft the new regions map).

I would recommend removing 1 and >5 as options: having only one Region would be pointless (you would basically have two federal governments), and I doubt that there's anyone here who thinks we have too few Regions.

As others have said before me, a three-Region map is the best option on the table. By going from five to three Regions, we would eliminate ~18 offices nationally, assuming each Region adopts a five-man government (1 governor, 3 legislators, 1 judge). Two Regions isn't a terrible idea, but I worry that such a map might decrease the number of positions too greatly, making it harder for new players to get their foot in the door.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #263 on: October 22, 2015, 11:27:05 am »

I move to establish a 3 region map using the map that was most preferred by a popular vote a few months ago. It makes the most sense and is aesthetically pleasing to my eye and it should be to yours too.
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Grand Inquisitor Lumine
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« Reply #264 on: October 22, 2015, 11:45:14 am »

I move to establish a 3 region map using the map that was most preferred by a popular vote a few months ago. It makes the most sense and is aesthetically pleasing to my eye and it should be to yours too.

Seconded. The map had broad support, and the least thing we need in weeks of debate on "no, that state should be on my region!"
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #265 on: October 22, 2015, 11:45:51 am »

Wonderful, so we embed secession in the constitution.

This convention has failed in its most important task, preserving a united Atlasia, both for this generation of Atlasians, and for generations of Atlasians yet unborn.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #266 on: October 22, 2015, 12:03:12 pm »

Let's not screw the regions issue up as well.

Clearly, three regions is the only way to go.

Something along these lines, give or take.

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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #267 on: October 22, 2015, 12:08:26 pm »

Wonderful, so we embed secession in the constitution.

This convention has failed in its most important task, preserving a united Atlasia, both for this generation of Atlasians, and for generations of Atlasians yet unborn.

At this point perhaps we should think about making Atlasia a confederacy without centralized power. The scary thing is, I bet a majority would support that. It's like they're trying to kill Atlasia off by making it useless to participate in. Who saw that coming? Tongue

But yes, let's not consider a two region system. 3 is the way to go. It's a no brainier, although I can see us dropping the ball yet again.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #268 on: October 22, 2015, 12:17:19 pm »

I would say adopt three regions, then do a quick vote on which region certain states should be in. For example, thinking of population centers, it would make more sense for Kansas to be linked with Missouri and Oklahoma.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #269 on: October 22, 2015, 12:31:04 pm »

I would say adopt three regions, then do a quick vote on which region certain states should be in. For example, thinking of population centers, it would make more sense for Kansas to be linked with Missouri and Oklahoma.

Like this

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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #270 on: October 22, 2015, 12:42:43 pm »

Wonderful, so we embed secession in the constitution.

This convention has failed in its most important task, preserving a united Atlasia, both for this generation of Atlasians, and for generations of Atlasians yet unborn.

At this point perhaps we should think about making Atlasia a confederacy without centralized power. The scary thing is, I bet a majority would support that. It's like they're trying to kill Atlasia off by making it useless to participate in. Who saw that coming? Tongue

But yes, let's not consider a two region system. 3 is the way to go. It's a no brainier, although I can see us dropping the ball yet again.

Yes, I thought this constitutional convention was supposed to save Atlasia, not give secessionists and malcontents a vehicle by which to legally pursue independence every two weeks.   
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #271 on: October 22, 2015, 01:46:44 pm »

Wonderful, so we embed secession in the constitution.

This convention has failed in its most important task, preserving a united Atlasia, both for this generation of Atlasians, and for generations of Atlasians yet unborn.

At this point perhaps we should think about making Atlasia a confederacy without centralized power. The scary thing is, I bet a majority would support that. It's like they're trying to kill Atlasia off by making it useless to participate in. Who saw that coming? Tongue

But yes, let's not consider a two region system. 3 is the way to go. It's a no brainier, although I can see us dropping the ball yet again.

Yes, I thought this constitutional convention was supposed to save Atlasia, not give secessionists and malcontents a vehicle by which to legally pursue independence every two weeks.   

Kind of makes the rest of this almost pointless, no? Why have a constitution that no region really needs to abide by.
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Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
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« Reply #272 on: October 22, 2015, 01:48:33 pm »

Wonderful, so we embed secession in the constitution.

This convention has failed in its most important task, preserving a united Atlasia, both for this generation of Atlasians, and for generations of Atlasians yet unborn.

At this point perhaps we should think about making Atlasia a confederacy without centralized power. The scary thing is, I bet a majority would support that. It's like they're trying to kill Atlasia off by making it useless to participate in. Who saw that coming? Tongue

But yes, let's not consider a two region system. 3 is the way to go. It's a no brainier, although I can see us dropping the ball yet again.

Yes, I thought this constitutional convention was supposed to save Atlasia, not give secessionists and malcontents a vehicle by which to legally pursue independence every two weeks.   

     Given the interest in creating a less specific Constitution, the specifics of secession would be left up to the Senate to iron out. Considering how many of the ayes were of the sort that it "should be allowed under some circumstances, but not willy-nilly", it's likely that the rules concerning secession would be quite stringent. There is little point in freaking out over it.
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #273 on: October 22, 2015, 02:27:54 pm »

Maybe something like this:

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Senator Cris
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« Reply #274 on: October 22, 2015, 03:12:42 pm »

Thanks for the proposals.

Tomorrow, I'll open a principle vote on the number of regions. Then we'll debate about the regions map and about details of secession.
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