|           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 07, 2020, 03:07:42 am
News:
If you are having trouble logging in due to invalid user name / pass:

Consider resetting your account password, as you may have forgotten it over time if using a password manager.

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 ... 30 Print
Author Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)  (Read 39501 times)
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,553
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2015, 07:50:49 am »

I'd like to ask you to not overlap your amendments.

After Truman's amendment, there are other amendments:

Classic Conservative's amendment and Never Again's amendment.

If Truman's amendment will pass, all other amendments will be automatically changed in order to reflect that there isn't a current text, but it's TBD. But the content will be the same.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,933
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2015, 03:37:52 pm »

I personally prefer three regions.

When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.

     Perhaps allow it, but at a high threshold? When 90% of people in a region support secession (i.e. Slovenia), telling them that they're not allowed to is meaningless; the will is there to just do it anyway.
Logged
Clyde1998
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,928
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2015, 04:00:24 pm »

I personally prefer three regions.

When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.

     Perhaps allow it, but at a high threshold? When 90% of people in a region support secession (i.e. Slovenia), telling them that they're not allowed to is meaningless; the will is there to just do it anyway.
I think it should be a turnout threshold among eligible voters. For example, the Northeast has a law stating that voters must have made ten posts in the previous 56 days for their vote to be eligible - those who have met that requirement would be included in the turnout figure, but not those who haven't met the threshold.
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 6,623
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2015, 11:22:10 pm »

Indiana shouldn't go with the Northeast section.
Logged
Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,631
Greece


Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2015, 02:48:56 am »

It is worth reiterating that the whole "I'd add/remove/swap [this state]" stuff is extremely counter-productive at this point and really shouldn't be a part of the dialog right now. This was the entire purpose of CARCA - which everyone in both cases was invited to participate in - so that we could derive a crowd-sourced aggregate map that best reflected the wishes of the people.

It is also worth noting that the same map was chosen in both instances of CARCA (2013 & 2015), with each convention having very little overlap with the other in terms of participants. It is a superior map in terms of balancing the desires and wishes of the nation.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,553
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2015, 02:57:10 am »

Truman's amendment has been adopted.
This is the current version:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
[/quote]

Now, let's go to Classic Conservative amendment.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I removed 2 and 6 only because there is not a text, so it might have other numbers in the future.
Delegates have 24 hours to object.
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 9,752
Antarctica


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2015, 09:13:41 am »

i object in the strongest possible way

the right to self-determination is recognised worldwide as a fundamental human right, and i can't support a constitution that utterly destroys it like this.
Logged
Clyde1998
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,928
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2015, 09:34:47 am »

i object in the strongest possible way

the right to self-determination is recognised worldwide as a fundamental human right, and i can't support a constitution that utterly destroys it like this.
Agreed - it would be undemocratic to deny self-determination.
Logged
Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,648



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2015, 09:38:14 am »

i object in the strongest possible way

the right to self-determination is recognised worldwide as a fundamental human right, and i can't support a constitution that utterly destroys it like this.
Agreed - it would be undemocratic to deny self-determination.
I see the KKK marching in playing Dixie and waving the Confederate flag here they are:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k-s51B66Sl4
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 9,752
Antarctica


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2015, 09:52:20 am »

we're not the ones splashing confederate flags everywhere Tongue
Logged
Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,648



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2015, 10:05:28 am »

we're not the ones splashing confederate flags everywhere Tongue
This would be a better song and flag for the Northeast
The Bonnie Blue Flag
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a-3WAhbulFs
Change Southern Rights to Northern Rights.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,553
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2015, 12:03:36 pm »

A 48-hours vote on Classic Conservative's amendment is now open.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Clyde1998
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,928
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2015, 12:10:52 pm »

Nay
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 9,752
Antarctica


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2015, 12:11:26 pm »

nay.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,051


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2015, 12:15:04 pm »

Yea
Logged
Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,648



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2015, 12:29:43 pm »

YEA
Logged
Chief Justice windjammer
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,031
France


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2015, 12:51:49 pm »

Aye
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 5,553
Italy


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2015, 02:53:45 pm »

Aye
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,489
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2015, 03:07:15 pm »

I personally prefer three regions.

When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.

     Perhaps allow it, but at a high threshold? When 90% of people in a region support secession (i.e. Slovenia), telling them that they're not allowed to is meaningless; the will is there to just do it anyway.

I don't think 90% is a very fair threshold, but more important, I think any result that doesn't take into account a percentage of overall registered voters is a recipe for disaster. Low turnout elections strike all the time, so having a handful of people who vote determine the future of a region is a bad idea. I'd think something like 60% of all eligible voters voting in favor is fairer.

A 48-hours vote on Classic Conservative's amendment is now open.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Nay.
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,167
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2015, 03:17:20 pm »

Nay
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,489
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2015, 03:19:01 pm »

Maps have been a contentious area of the debate for years. I would caution the delegates from becoming too fixated on a detail that has little impact in reality. Yes, a majority of individuals live in the blue region. However, I would assume (as has been proposed in the past) that all citizens will have the opportunity to have one free move, should a reduction in regions occur. This should hopefully counter concerns of one region becoming too overpopulated, though unless we put initial caps on the regions, may be uncontrollable.

Something to think about.

I pretty much agree with this. I'm sympathetic to the argument, but it's not very likely that everyone will just sit still and not change their registration at all. When we shake up the snowglobe, people will re-settle in new places. A bit of faith there, but I think it's the only way this issue can be resolved without a map that looks offensive.
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,126
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: -1.57

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2015, 03:22:24 pm »

Nay to Classic Conservative's amendment.
Logged
Grand Inquisitor Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,560


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2015, 03:26:27 pm »

Aye.
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 9,752
Antarctica


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2015, 03:33:53 pm »

Maps have been a contentious area of the debate for years. I would caution the delegates from becoming too fixated on a detail that has little impact in reality. Yes, a majority of individuals live in the blue region. However, I would assume (as has been proposed in the past) that all citizens will have the opportunity to have one free move, should a reduction in regions occur. This should hopefully counter concerns of one region becoming too overpopulated, though unless we put initial caps on the regions, may be uncontrollable.

Something to think about.

I pretty much agree with this. I'm sympathetic to the argument, but it's not very likely that everyone will just sit still and not change their registration at all. When we shake up the snowglobe, people will re-settle in new places. A bit of faith there, but I think it's the only way this issue can be resolved without a map that looks offensive.

to some degree, sure, but i don't think you understand quite how huge the activity gap is right now. leinad's last count showed the northeast accounting for ALMOST EIGHTY PERCENT of activity on the regional governments board.
Logged
Leinad
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2015, 01:15:57 am »

Nay.

No one has explained what gives the federal government the absolute power to rule over people, even if the specific people don't want it, in every situation no matter what.

Let this not be a vote on Northeastern independence, or a sophomoric partisan rivalry bleeding over. This is an amendment that completely eliminates the right to self-determination, and basically gives the federal government absolute, unchallengeable power over the regions.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 ... 30 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines