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March 07, 2021, 08:10:03 PM
Talk Elections
Atlas Fantasy Elections
Atlas Fantasy Government
Constitutional Convention
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
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Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED) (Read 42636 times)
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #50 on:
October 09, 2015, 07:50:49 AM »
I'd like to ask you to not overlap your amendments.
After Truman's amendment, there are other amendments:
Classic Conservative's amendment
and
Never Again's amendment
.
If Truman's amendment will pass, all other amendments will be automatically changed in order to reflect that there isn't a current text, but it's TBD. But the content will be the same.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
Atlas Star
Posts: 29,330
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #51 on:
October 09, 2015, 03:37:52 PM »
Quote from: Marokai Backbeat on October 08, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I personally prefer three regions.
When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.
Perhaps allow it, but at a high threshold? When 90% of people in a region support secession (i.e. Slovenia), telling them that they're not allowed to is meaningless; the will is there to just do it anyway.
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Clyde1998
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,938
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #52 on:
October 09, 2015, 04:00:24 PM »
Quote from: Senator PiT on October 09, 2015, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: Marokai Backbeat on October 08, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I personally prefer three regions.
When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.
Perhaps allow it, but at a high threshold? When 90% of people in a region support secession (i.e. Slovenia), telling them that they're not allowed to is meaningless; the will is there to just do it anyway.
I think it should be a turnout threshold among
eligible
voters. For example, the Northeast has a law stating that voters must have made ten posts in the previous 56 days for their vote to be eligible - those who have met that requirement would be included in the turnout figure, but not those who haven't met the threshold.
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 6,692
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #53 on:
October 09, 2015, 11:22:10 PM »
Indiana shouldn't go with the Northeast section.
Logged
Where We Griff 1 We Griff All
Adam Griffin
Atlas Icon
Posts: 17,973
Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #54 on:
October 10, 2015, 02:48:56 AM »
It is worth reiterating that the whole "I'd add/remove/swap [this state]" stuff is extremely counter-productive at this point and really shouldn't be a part of the dialog right now.
This was the entire purpose of CARCA
- which
everyone
in both cases was invited to participate in - so that we could derive a crowd-sourced aggregate map that best reflected the wishes of the people.
It is also worth noting that the same map was chosen in both instances of CARCA
(2013 & 2015), with each convention having very little overlap with the other in terms of participants. It is a superior map in terms of balancing the desires and wishes of the nation.
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Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #55 on:
October 10, 2015, 02:57:10 AM »
Truman's amendment has been adopted.
This is the current version:
Quote
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[/quote]
Now, let's go to Classic Conservative amendment.
Quote
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I removed 2 and 6 only because there is not a text, so it might have other numbers in the future.
Delegates have 24 hours to object.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 9,747
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #56 on:
October 10, 2015, 09:13:41 AM »
i object in the strongest possible way
the right to self-determination is recognised worldwide as a fundamental human right, and i can't support a constitution that utterly destroys it like this.
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Clyde1998
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,938
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #57 on:
October 10, 2015, 09:34:47 AM »
Quote from: low-energy loser evergreen on October 10, 2015, 09:13:41 AM
i object in the strongest possible way
the right to self-determination is recognised worldwide as a fundamental human right, and i can't support a constitution that utterly destroys it like this.
Agreed - it would be undemocratic to deny self-determination.
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Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,647
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #58 on:
October 10, 2015, 09:38:14 AM »
Quote from: Clyde1998 on October 10, 2015, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: low-energy loser evergreen on October 10, 2015, 09:13:41 AM
i object in the strongest possible way
the right to self-determination is recognised worldwide as a fundamental human right, and i can't support a constitution that utterly destroys it like this.
Agreed - it would be undemocratic to deny self-determination.
I see the KKK marching in playing Dixie and waving the Confederate flag here they are:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k-s51B66Sl4
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 9,747
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #59 on:
October 10, 2015, 09:52:20 AM »
we're not the ones splashing confederate flags everywhere
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Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,647
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #60 on:
October 10, 2015, 10:05:28 AM »
Quote from: low-energy loser evergreen on October 10, 2015, 09:52:20 AM
we're not the ones splashing confederate flags everywhere
This would be a better song and flag for the Northeast
The Bonnie Blue Flag
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a-3WAhbulFs
Change Southern Rights to Northern Rights.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #61 on:
October 10, 2015, 12:03:36 PM »
A 48-hours vote on Classic Conservative's amendment is now open.
Quote
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Clyde1998
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,938
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #62 on:
October 10, 2015, 12:10:52 PM »
Nay
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 9,747
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #63 on:
October 10, 2015, 12:11:26 PM »
nay.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,294
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #64 on:
October 10, 2015, 12:15:04 PM »
Yea
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Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,647
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #65 on:
October 10, 2015, 12:29:43 PM »
YEA
Logged
Chief Justice windjammer
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,353
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #66 on:
October 10, 2015, 12:51:49 PM »
Aye
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #67 on:
October 10, 2015, 02:53:45 PM »
Aye
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
Posts: 17,489
Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #68 on:
October 10, 2015, 03:07:15 PM »
Quote from: Senator PiT on October 09, 2015, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: Marokai Backbeat on October 08, 2015, 05:59:59 PM
I personally prefer three regions.
When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.
Perhaps allow it, but at a high threshold? When 90% of people in a region support secession (i.e. Slovenia), telling them that they're not allowed to is meaningless; the will is there to just do it anyway.
I don't think 90% is a very fair threshold, but more important, I think any result that doesn't take into account a percentage of overall registered voters is a recipe for disaster. Low turnout elections strike all the time, so having a handful of people who vote determine the future of a region is a bad idea. I'd think something like 60%
of all eligible voters voting
in favor is fairer.
Quote from: Speaker Cris on October 10, 2015, 12:03:36 PM
A 48-hours vote on Classic Conservative's amendment is now open.
Quote
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Nay.
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bore
YaBB God
Posts: 4,197
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #69 on:
October 10, 2015, 03:17:20 PM »
Nay
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
Posts: 17,489
Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #70 on:
October 10, 2015, 03:19:01 PM »
Quote from: tmthforu94 on October 08, 2015, 08:17:46 PM
Maps have been a contentious area of the debate for years. I would caution the delegates from becoming too fixated on a detail that has little impact in reality. Yes, a majority of individuals live in the blue region. However, I would assume (as has been proposed in the past) that all citizens will have the opportunity to have one free move, should a reduction in regions occur. This should hopefully counter concerns of one region becoming too overpopulated, though unless we put initial caps on the regions, may be uncontrollable.
Something to think about.
I pretty much agree with this. I'm sympathetic to the argument, but it's not very likely that everyone will just sit still and not change their registration at all. When we shake up the snowglobe, people will re-settle in new places. A bit of faith there, but I think it's the only way this issue can be resolved without a map that looks offensive.
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tmthforu94
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,202
Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: -1.57
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #71 on:
October 10, 2015, 03:22:24 PM »
Nay
to Classic Conservative's amendment.
Logged
Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,348
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #72 on:
October 10, 2015, 03:26:27 PM »
Aye.
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 9,747
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #73 on:
October 10, 2015, 03:33:53 PM »
Quote from: Marokai Backbeat on October 10, 2015, 03:19:01 PM
Quote from: tmthforu94 on October 08, 2015, 08:17:46 PM
Maps have been a contentious area of the debate for years. I would caution the delegates from becoming too fixated on a detail that has little impact in reality. Yes, a majority of individuals live in the blue region. However, I would assume (as has been proposed in the past) that all citizens will have the opportunity to have one free move, should a reduction in regions occur. This should hopefully counter concerns of one region becoming too overpopulated, though unless we put initial caps on the regions, may be uncontrollable.
Something to think about.
I pretty much agree with this. I'm sympathetic to the argument, but it's not very likely that everyone will just sit still and not change their registration at all. When we shake up the snowglobe, people will re-settle in new places. A bit of faith there, but I think it's the only way this issue can be resolved without a map that looks offensive.
to some degree, sure, but i don't think you understand quite how huge the activity gap is right now. leinad's last count showed the northeast accounting for
ALMOST EIGHTY PERCENT
of activity on the regional governments board.
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Leinad
YaBB God
Posts: 4,941
Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #74 on:
October 11, 2015, 01:15:57 AM »
Nay.
No one has explained what gives the federal government the absolute power to rule over people, even if the specific people don't want it, in every situation no matter what.
Let this not be a vote on Northeastern independence, or a sophomoric partisan rivalry bleeding over. This is an amendment that completely eliminates the right to self-determination, and basically gives the federal government absolute, unchallengeable power over the regions.
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