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  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
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Author Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)  (Read 39423 times)
NeverAgain
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« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2015, 01:49:10 am »

Abstain.
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MadmanMotley
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« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2015, 09:51:55 am »

A 48-hours vote on Classic Conservative's amendment is now open.

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NAY.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2015, 01:22:14 pm »

Aye
What's the point in having a country if you're just letting regions leave whenever they get angry? Preserve the union.
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rpryor03
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« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2015, 02:01:58 pm »

Aye
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #79 on: October 11, 2015, 02:02:57 pm »

AYE.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2015, 02:05:25 pm »

Nay on the fascist Classic Conservative amendment.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2015, 02:36:01 pm »

Nay on the fascist Classic Conservative amendment.
For the love of God I'm not a fascist, nor is anyone other Atlasia here, you might not like my views on some issue but disagreement doesn't make someone a fascist.
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2015, 04:04:39 pm »

AYE


The Union FOREVER
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2015, 05:41:34 pm »

In the South we have had two back to back elections for Governor, where the losing candidate has departed from the game.

That doesn't do it justice. We have had 3 straight region-wide single-winner elections where the loser has left: Flo > DeadPrez, PiT > Hagrid, and someone who's name I can't recall > DarTheBearNC. In fact, the last loser of a region-wide single-winner election in the South to not leave the game or go inactive immediately after is all the way back in February, a certain someone from North Carolina.

Never heard of him. Tongue

But yeah, for the loser of a race, they are out of office and for a newer person that deprives them of a chance ot make a name for themselves. We need to have enough offices to give them a chance to establish themselves, otherwise they will leave after their first or second defeat.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2015, 05:43:52 pm »

Nay on the fascist Classic Conservative amendment.
For the love of God I'm not a fascist, nor is anyone other Atlasia here, you might not like my views on some issue but disagreement doesn't make someone a fascist.

Someone has to fill TNF's vacuum, of calling Federalists fascists. I guess they selected a rotating committee.
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Biden/Abrams Voter
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2015, 03:00:21 am »

I have a lot of thoughts on this, and tend to lean AYE, but in short, I think we need to hash a bit more out on this particular matter before voting on a very fundamental element such as this.

Abstain
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #86 on: October 12, 2015, 04:25:38 am »

AYE
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Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
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« Reply #87 on: October 12, 2015, 10:26:06 am »

     Nay
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #88 on: October 12, 2015, 10:35:31 am »

It surprises how individuals who have claimed to advocate for regional rights for years are now voting AGAINST regional rights on one of the most important votes related to it we have seen.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #89 on: October 12, 2015, 10:41:49 am »

It surprises how individuals who have claimed to advocate for regional rights for years are now voting AGAINST regional rights on one of the most important votes related to it we have seen.
Well, it's a bit different.
One count is regional rights (in this case the debate'd be more rights to regions vs. more rights to fed. govt) but another count is letting regions secede from Atlasia.

Duke explains it very well:

Aye
What's the point in having a country if you're just letting regions leave whenever they get angry? Preserve the union.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2015, 10:51:45 am »

I agree with Duke what's the point of having a country if everyone can just say I'm bored let's have blank region leave and form our own nation.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2015, 10:55:49 am »

I agree with Duke what's the point of having a country if everyone can just say I'm bored let's have blank region leave and form our own nation.
If EVERYONE wants that, they should have the ability to do so - there should definitely be safeguards in place to ensure this can only happen if the vast majority choose to do so, but the REGIONS should have the RIGHT to do so.

I don't see this as a huge deal, because with three regions we are likely to have three pretty ideologically diverse regions, so the chances that enough people come together to secede are pretty low.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #92 on: October 12, 2015, 12:12:53 pm »
« Edited: October 12, 2015, 12:21:09 pm by Speaker Cris »

AYE: 10
NAY: 9
ABSTAIN: 2

The amendment has been adopted.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #93 on: October 12, 2015, 12:29:35 pm »

This is the current text:

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Now, let's go to NeverAgain's amendment:

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This was a counter amendment to Classic Conservative's one, so I'd suggest the sponsor, if he wants to keep it, to withdraw it and propose another amendment with the same content but with the current text strikethrough.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2015, 01:21:17 pm »

I oppose NeverAgain's amendment. Should a region choose to secede, they should not have to go through the senate, much less the president, to do so.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #95 on: October 12, 2015, 01:36:04 pm »

I propose an amendment.

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NeverAgain
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« Reply #96 on: October 12, 2015, 01:38:27 pm »

I oppose NeverAgain's amendment. Should a region choose to secede, they should not have to go through the senate, much less the president, to do so.
I had a national referendum in there. Would you agree with that?
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Grand Inquisitor Lumine
LumineVonReuental
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« Reply #97 on: October 12, 2015, 01:46:05 pm »

We can spend weeks arguing about this "right to secede" and whether it should exist based on real life precedents, but I have to ask, what is the point of seccession itself?

It certainly doesn't add a productive dynamic to the game, unless we call the increasingly ludicrous "lol, I'm rebelling against Nyman and creating my own country" stunts a useful part of the game. It doesn't make sense either in hypothetical terms to dismember the country and blow up the union, not to mention this "right to secede" is far from a usual norm across the world these days.

Why, then, are secession mechanisms (which seem awfully easy to overcome) something we need?
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #98 on: October 12, 2015, 01:56:26 pm »

I propose an amendment.

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I object.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2015, 01:58:32 pm »

I also object to NeverAgains Admendment we already have an Admendment that passed, we don't need to keep debating this forever and ever.
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