Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)

[Where We Griff 1 We Griff All]

Aye

[VPH]

Nay

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

Nay

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

and yet you didn't join the process (presumably because the Federalists were lynching people right and left for daring to support consolidation),

Bullsh**t!!!


Tmth was overwhelmingly elected as Party Chairman in December 2013 as an aknowledged supporter of Consolidation, to replace another pro-Consolidation Chairman, Maxwell. Duke was nominated in October 2013, running as a pro-Consolidation independent with a Federalist VP, who also supported consolidation.

Of the three Federalist Senators, only one voted against the final FTR amendment, and that was after said single Federalist Nay exerted much effort to assist in structuring a workable process. This same Nay voter than expedited the process to bring the FTR back up after three lame-ass Senators you elected went AWOL and caused it to fail the first time. Of course you weren't here for that because you had pussed out like a err deregistered.

The  opposition that killed it at the ratification booth came to ahead in January 2014, by which time Duke had been damaged amongst Conservatives from the perception he was too compromising with TNF. I would also remind you that the first, albeit abortive, challenger to Duke, was pro-consolidation Maxwell.

Consolidation did divide the Party, but there was no effort to lynch pro-consolidation people because they were pro-consolidation and it was certainly not an overwhelming factor whilst CARCA 2013 was underway. It did get lumped onto many unfair critiques that was leveled at Duke and helped to fuel the Reaganfan challenge, in early 2014, not in 2013.

Once again your take on these events is clouded by the simple fact, that, as we painfully learned this summer, there is no substitute for being there.

All of that occurred after CARCA and after Hagrid more or less had stopped influencing the process by proxy. I was informed by pro-consolidation Federalists during that time that they were facing pressure not to be involved. In addition, I'm sure Federalist Independent President Duke can elaborate on just how much criticism (including a primary challenge) he faced over being pro-consolidation, but he can put it in his own words if he wishes!

I will say I think Yankee's memory of what happened was a bit more rosy than what actually occurred

I was basically told I needed to soften/abandon my consolidation rhetoric or I would lose the primary to Reaganfan, and Maxwell had to do the same before he launched his primary challenge against me. Neither of us were really able to run on pro-consolidation because it was so toxic that the party would elect a troll as their candidate over anyone remotely serious. They didn't like that I held hands with TNF and flirted with the Labor Party all during my presidency from across the bar, I was famously told that if I didn't blanket VETO every TNF/Labor bill, I shouldn't be in office. That was great advice!

The consolidation debate is part of what pushed me to coming within a few minutes of switching to the Labor Party, I was so close I had written a speech announcing the switch which I still have somewhere on my computer, but at the end I decided to stay loyal mainly to Yankee and run with the Federalists because I'm a good friend and I don't abandon those who support me.

You missed my point Adam was taking about CARCA, which if memory serves me was in October/November 2013. It was certainly before Adam deregistered and therefore couldn't have been in December or later.

Everything you are saying was true, in December and afterwards. There was resistance in the fall, but it was mainly centered in the Mideast, the region to be axed until a month or two later. I am not aware of any organized opposition in October within Federalist circles. I nearly left the Party myself because I felt it had not taken Rimjob seriously even much less any concern about consolidation. There was dramatic shift once Hagrid began to actively oppose consolidation.

[Leinad]

Aye!

Empty space is irrelevant--I've yet to hear a reason why that actually matters. As far as national sovereignty, who's to say the NPCs aren't joining voluntarily?

Anyway, I think it would be fun to register in Jamaica or Cuba or whatever. It adds a new element to the game, even if it's a very small one.

Leinad:

Well, you can say as well that not all the people voted for the election of the delegates. The CARCA represented every people that wanted to participate: DIRECT DEMOCRACY.

The key difference is this: the Convention is official, it's binding, the CARCA was ultimately not. As much as you and others keep saying it was, it's still just an informal meeting of certain unelected people.

It's completely different. Yes, the CARCA happened, it's map was a good starting point, but, and this is the main idea I'm trying to get through: we are under no obligation to follow what happened at the CARCA to the letter. And I'm glad the majority of my fellow delegates agree with me on that.

[Senator Cris]

Nay

[ilikeverin]

Nope

[Clyde1998]

Nay

[Clark Kent]

AYE

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Nay

[tmthforu94]

Aye

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Nay

     I don't really see the point in adding more playable areas. The best argument for adding Canada was that Canadians could register where they live; my question is did any Canadians actually care? I'm pretty sure that there aren't any posters from the Caribbean to take advantage of those areas being added.

The best argument at the time behind the actual motivation was to add more playable areas and choice to the game in order to allow more people to live wherever they decided. Ultimately, anywhere from 5-10% of the game's population resided in Canada at any given point. Again, I'm just baffled at the amount of resistance there is to adding perfectly playable land to this new game when there are literally no tangible negative repercussions in doing so. "Oh no, empty space" - and what if there is? There always has been, except for that one time that somebody actually took the initiative to fully fill each state with people. I'm clueless as to why everybody is suddenly upset about it now.

     Choice is nice, but this is extremely pointless. There has been enough tension over state registration, which sort of makes sense to have in that our geography reflects the United States. Even that much is basically tenuous. Adding Canada and the Caribbean has no negatives, but it also has no positives.

[bore]

Nay

[Chief Justice windjammer]

Changing my vote to Aye.

I honestly believe this idea is useless but there are people who have been registered in Canada and I dont support mass deportation.

[Prince of Salem]

Abstain.

I don't care about this issues.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE

[Senator Cris]

The amendment failed to pass.

AYEs: 6
NAYs: 13
ABSTAINs: 2

[Chief Justice windjammer]

Cris,
Dont forget I would like a thread to be open about the number of office someone could hold .

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

The amendment failed to pass.

AYEs: 6
NAYs: 13
ABSTAINs: 2

There were 3 abstentions, I think (me, Windjammer, and JoMCaR).

[Leinad]

The amendment failed to pass.

AYEs: 6
NAYs: 13
ABSTAINs: 2

There were 3 abstentions, I think (me, Windjammer, and JoMCaR).

It was, but:

Changing my vote to Aye.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

With the failure of Griffin's amendment, this is the current text:

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I hereby offer the following amendment:

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I would remind the delegates that we have already approved a Principle Vote legalizing secession, so rejecting this amendment will NOT result in secession being outlawed in the new Constitution. This vote will merely determine the method by which Regions may withdraw from the Union.

[Lincoln Republican]

Here is the map:

[tmthforu94]

What is the rationale against the regions being named West, Southeast and Northeast?

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

What is the rationale against the regions being named West, Southeast and Northeast?

I think the current names are more original and add a bit of creative flair to the map; however, if the Convention would prefer compass names, I'd be fine with that as well.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Delegates have 24 hours to object to Truman's amendment.