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February 28, 2021, 12:56:18 AM
Talk Elections
Atlas Fantasy Elections
Atlas Fantasy Government
Constitutional Convention
(Moderator:
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
)
Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
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Author
Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED) (Read 42524 times)
Where We Griff 1 We Griff All
Adam Griffin
Atlas Icon
Posts: 17,945
Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #450 on:
November 01, 2015, 10:33:11 PM »
Aye
Logged
VPH
vivaportugalhabs
YaBB God
Posts: 3,885
Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -0.17
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #451 on:
November 01, 2015, 10:36:46 PM »
Nay
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
Nagas
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,827
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #452 on:
November 01, 2015, 11:04:40 PM »
Nay
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 48,624
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on Amendment)
«
Reply #453 on:
November 02, 2015, 02:16:04 AM »
Quote from: Duke on October 31, 2015, 12:36:21 PM
Quote from: RG Griff on October 31, 2015, 04:36:02 AM
Quote from: Senator North Carolina Yankee on October 31, 2015, 12:33:12 AM
Quote from: RG Griff on October 30, 2015, 10:23:13 PM
and yet you didn't join the process (presumably because the Federalists were lynching people right and left for daring to support consolidation),
Bullsh**t!!!
Tmth was overwhelmingly elected as Party Chairman in December 2013 as an aknowledged supporter of Consolidation, to replace another pro-Consolidation Chairman, Maxwell. Duke was nominated in October 2013, running as a pro-Consolidation independent with a Federalist VP, who also supported consolidation.
Of the three Federalist Senators, only one voted against the final FTR amendment, and that was after said single Federalist Nay exerted much effort to assist in structuring a workable process. This same Nay voter than expedited the process to bring the FTR back up after three lame-ass Senators you elected went AWOL and caused it to fail the first time. Of course you weren't here for that because you had pussed out like a err deregistered.
The opposition that killed it at the ratification booth came to ahead in January 2014, by which time Duke had been damaged amongst Conservatives from the perception he was too compromising with TNF. I would also remind you that the first, albeit abortive, challenger to Duke, was pro-consolidation Maxwell.
Consolidation did divide the Party, but there was no effort to lynch pro-consolidation people because they were pro-consolidation and it was certainly not an overwhelming factor whilst CARCA 2013 was underway. It did get lumped onto many unfair critiques that was leveled at Duke and helped to fuel the Reaganfan challenge,
in early 2014, not in 2013.
Once again your take on these events is clouded by the simple fact, that, as we painfully learned this summer, there is no substitute for being there.
All of that occurred after CARCA and after Hagrid more or less had stopped influencing the process by proxy. I was informed by pro-consolidation Federalists during that time that they were facing pressure not to be involved. In addition, I'm sure
Federalist
Independent President Duke can elaborate on just how much criticism (including a primary challenge) he faced over being pro-consolidation, but he can put it in his own words if he wishes!
I will say I think Yankee's memory of what happened was a bit more rosy than what actually occurred
I was basically told I needed to soften/abandon my consolidation rhetoric or I would lose the primary to Reaganfan, and Maxwell had to do the same before he launched his primary challenge against me. Neither of us were really able to run on pro-consolidation because it was so toxic that the party would elect a troll as their candidate over anyone remotely serious. They didn't like that I held hands with TNF and flirted with the Labor Party all during my presidency from across the bar, I was famously told that if I didn't blanket VETO every TNF/Labor bill, I shouldn't be in office. That was great advice!
The consolidation debate is part of what pushed me to coming within a few minutes of switching to the Labor Party, I was so close I had written a speech announcing the switch which I still have somewhere on my computer, but at the end I decided to stay loyal mainly to Yankee and run with the Federalists because I'm a good friend and I don't abandon those who support me.
You missed my point Adam was taking about CARCA, which if memory serves me was in October/November 2013. It was certainly before Adam deregistered and therefore couldn't have been in December or later.
Everything you are saying was true, in December and afterwards. There was resistance in the fall, but it was mainly centered in the Mideast, the region to be axed until a month or two later. I am not aware of any organized opposition in October within Federalist circles. I nearly left the Party myself because I felt it had not taken Rimjob seriously even much less any concern about consolidation. There was dramatic shift once Hagrid began to actively oppose consolidation.
Logged
Leinad
YaBB God
Posts: 4,915
Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on Amendment)
«
Reply #454 on:
November 02, 2015, 03:40:20 AM »
Aye!
Empty space is irrelevant--I've yet to hear a reason why that actually matters. As far as national sovereignty, who's to say the NPCs aren't joining voluntarily?
Anyway, I think it would be fun to register in Jamaica or Cuba or whatever. It adds a new element to the game, even if it's a very small one.
Quote from: windjammer on October 31, 2015, 06:35:49 AM
Leinad:
Well, you can say as well that not all the people voted for the election of the delegates. The CARCA represented every people that wanted to participate: DIRECT DEMOCRACY.
The key difference is this: the Convention is official, it's binding, the CARCA was ultimately not. As much as you and others keep saying it was, it's still just an informal meeting of certain unelected people.
It's completely different. Yes, the CARCA happened, it's map was a good starting point, but, and this is the main idea I'm trying to get through: we are under no obligation to follow what happened at the CARCA to the letter. And I'm glad the majority of my fellow delegates agree with me on that.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #455 on:
November 02, 2015, 03:41:28 AM »
Nay
Logged
ilikeverin
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 16,158
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #456 on:
November 02, 2015, 09:04:50 AM »
Nope
Logged
Clyde1998
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,939
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #457 on:
November 02, 2015, 09:34:11 AM »
Nay
Logged
Clark Kent
ClarkKent
Sr. Member
Posts: 3,479
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #458 on:
November 02, 2015, 09:42:53 AM »
AYE
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,044
Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #459 on:
November 02, 2015, 10:28:58 AM »
Nay
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,191
Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: -1.57
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #460 on:
November 02, 2015, 10:42:57 AM »
Aye
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
Atlas Star
Posts: 29,324
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #461 on:
November 02, 2015, 02:49:52 PM »
Nay
Quote from: RG Griff on November 01, 2015, 10:12:02 PM
Quote from: Senator PiT on November 01, 2015, 04:31:47 PM
I don't really see the point in adding more playable areas. The best argument for adding Canada was that Canadians could register where they live; my question is did any Canadians actually care? I'm pretty sure that there aren't any posters from the Caribbean to take advantage of those areas being added.
The best argument at the time behind the actual motivation was to add more playable areas and choice to the game in order to allow more people to live wherever they decided. Ultimately, anywhere from 5-10% of the game's population resided in Canada at any given point. Again, I'm just baffled at the amount of resistance there is to adding perfectly playable land to this new game when there are literally no tangible negative repercussions in doing so. "Oh no, empty space" - and what if there is? There always has been, except for that one time that somebody actually took the initiative to
fully fill each state with people
. I'm clueless as to why everybody is suddenly upset about it
now
.
Choice is nice, but this is extremely pointless. There has been enough tension over state registration, which sort of makes sense to have in that our geography reflects the United States. Even that much is basically tenuous. Adding Canada and the Caribbean has no negatives, but it also has no positives.
Logged
bore
YaBB God
Posts: 4,198
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #462 on:
November 02, 2015, 05:03:38 PM »
Nay
Logged
Chief Justice windjammer
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,350
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #463 on:
November 02, 2015, 05:47:06 PM »
Changing my vote to Aye.
I honestly believe this idea is useless but there are people who have been registered in Canada and I dont support mass deportation.
Logged
Prince of Salem
JoMCaR
Jr. Member
Posts: 1,634
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #464 on:
November 02, 2015, 09:01:43 PM »
Quote from: windjammer on November 01, 2015, 05:38:12 PM
Abstain.
I don't care about this issues.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 48,624
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #465 on:
November 02, 2015, 10:16:36 PM »
AYE
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #466 on:
November 03, 2015, 05:02:45 PM »
The amendment failed to pass.
AYEs: 6
NAYs: 13
ABSTAINs: 2
Logged
Chief Justice windjammer
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,350
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #467 on:
November 03, 2015, 05:08:32 PM »
Cris,
Dont forget I would like a thread to be open about the number of office someone could hold
.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,516
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #468 on:
November 03, 2015, 07:14:58 PM »
Quote from: Speaker Cris on November 03, 2015, 05:02:45 PM
The amendment failed to pass.
AYEs: 6
NAYs: 13
ABSTAINs: 2
There were 3 abstentions, I think (me, Windjammer, and JoMCaR).
Logged
Leinad
YaBB God
Posts: 4,915
Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (Voting on amendment)
«
Reply #469 on:
November 03, 2015, 10:08:13 PM »
Quote from: Senator Truman on November 03, 2015, 07:14:58 PM
Quote from: Speaker Cris on November 03, 2015, 05:02:45 PM
The amendment failed to pass.
AYEs: 6
NAYs: 13
ABSTAINs: 2
There were 3 abstentions, I think (me, Windjammer, and JoMCaR).
It was, but:
Quote from: windjammer on November 02, 2015, 05:47:06 PM
Changing my vote to Aye.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,516
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #470 on:
November 09, 2015, 08:10:36 PM »
With the failure of Griffin's amendment, this is the current text:
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I hereby offer the following amendment:
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I would remind the delegates that we have already approved a Principle Vote legalizing secession, so rejecting this amendment will
NOT
result in secession being outlawed in the new Constitution. This vote will merely determine the method by which Regions may withdraw from the Union.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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Posts: 14,289
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #471 on:
November 09, 2015, 08:30:18 PM »
Here is the map:
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tmthforu94
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,191
Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: -1.57
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #472 on:
November 09, 2015, 08:53:13 PM »
What is the rationale against the regions being named West, Southeast and Northeast?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,516
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #473 on:
November 09, 2015, 11:09:11 PM »
Quote from: tmthforu94 on November 09, 2015, 08:53:13 PM
What is the rationale against the regions being named West, Southeast and Northeast?
I think the current names are more original and add a bit of creative flair to the map; however, if the Convention would prefer compass names, I'd be fine with that as well.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,516
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments
«
Reply #474 on:
November 09, 2015, 11:16:28 PM »
Delegates have 24 hours to object to Truman's amendment.
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