Talk Elections
Forum
Contact
|
US Election Atlas
Election 2020
Election Results
Election Info
Atlas Wiki
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
March 07, 2021, 12:44:14 AM
Talk Elections
Atlas Fantasy Elections
Atlas Fantasy Government
Constitutional Convention
(Moderator:
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
)
Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
« previous
next »
Pages:
1
2
3
4
[
5
]
6
7
8
9
10
...
30
Author
Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED) (Read 42618 times)
Oakvale
oakvale
Atlas Icon
Posts: 11,641
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #100 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:02:13 PM »
Quote from: Lumine on October 12, 2015, 01:46:05 PM
We can spend weeks arguing about this "right to secede" and whether it should exist based on real life precedents, but I have to ask, what is the point of seccession itself?
It certainly doesn't add a productive dynamic to the game, unless we call the increasingly ludicrous "lol, I'm rebelling against Nyman and creating my own country" stunts a useful part of the game. It doesn't make sense either in hypothetical terms to dismember the country and blow up the union, not to mention this "right to secede" is far from a usual norm across the world these days.
Why, then, are secession mechanisms (which seem awfully easy to overcome) something we need?
Typical fascist claptrap. If enough people want to form a new country they should have the right do so. Atlasia started because people wanted to do exactly that. The kind of absurd legalism that implies it should be against "muh rules" (which is what the Constitution is) will kill this game stone dead as it lies in hospital on life support.
Logged
Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,647
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #101 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:04:24 PM »
What you don't get to grasp the idea of Oakvale, is that splitting up a nation will kill a nation. With all do respect you're smart enough to know this.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,044
Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #102 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:17:10 PM »
OK, individuals should have the right to leave a country if they wish, sure, but I guess my argument is taking land with them. It's fine to leave a country out of protest, but taking your house and forming your own country using land of another is a bit much. People can have the right to leave but the federal government should have the right to enforce the union.
Otherwise, why have a federal government? Just make a confederation of states that all have their own autonomy and be done with it.
Logged
Oakvale
oakvale
Atlas Icon
Posts: 11,641
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #103 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:21:00 PM »
Quote from: Classic Conservative on October 12, 2015, 02:04:24 PM
What you don't get to grasp the idea of Oakvale, is that splitting up a nation will kill a nation. With all do respect you're smart enough to know this.
The nation's already dead. The signs of life that occasionally emerge when someone with a genuinely radical message like Talleyrand emerges doesn't change that. If anything, regional independence - and let's face it, this is a blatant slap in the fact to the Northeast Nationalists by the hacks running this Convention, and nothing more - would revitalise the game. But, you know, muh union.
Quote from: Duke on October 12, 2015, 02:17:10 PM
OK, individuals should have the right to leave a country if they wish, sure, but I guess my argument is taking land with them. It's fine to leave a country out of protest, but taking your house and forming your own country using land of another is a bit much. People can have the right to leave but the federal government should have the right to enforce the union.
Otherwise, why have a federal government? Just make a confederation of states that all have their own autonomy and be done with it.
I'd be fine with that.
Logged
Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,345
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #104 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:28:39 PM »
I think it's the 100th or so that I hear independence from a region to be something that would "revitalise" the game, and I fail to see convincing evidence supporting that. If anything, it's the "muh secession" mentality that seems a bit out of touch considering there is little point for the union to be broken in a whim.
And so I ask again, why do we need seccession? What do we gain from it?
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,202
Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: -1.57
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #105 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:36:43 PM »
Quote from: Duke on October 12, 2015, 02:17:10 PM
Just make a confederation of states that all have their own autonomy and be done with it.
That isn't a terrible idea. Perhaps create it in a way where the federal governments role is simple: monitor the regions.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,561
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #106 on:
October 12, 2015, 02:44:03 PM »
Quote from: Lumine on October 12, 2015, 02:28:39 PM
I think it's the 100th or so that I hear independence from a region to be something that would "revitalise" the game, and I fail to see convincing evidence supporting that. If anything, it's the "muh secession" mentality that seems a bit out of touch considering there is little point for the union to be broken in a whim.
And so I ask again, why do we need seccession? What do we gain from it?
Yeah, the argument for secession is pretty poor all around. As Duke pointed out, the theoretical argument for secession is weak to begin with, and claims that secession would spark increased activity just doesn't match up with reality. Oakvale and others have been pushing for Northeast independence for months now, yet this has not led to a significant increase in activity (the Northeast is active, yes, but this has little to do with with the secession movement). It's much more likely that secession would actually cause the game to collapse, as independent Regions would have smaller pools of active voters than a united Republic.
Furthermore, if you believe that Atlasia is already dead, you frankly shouldn't be here.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,558
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #107 on:
October 12, 2015, 03:06:29 PM »
Again: don't overlap amendments and when you present amendments don't forget to strikethrough the current text.
@NeverAgain: I should assume that with your amendment you want to strike the current text and enterely replace it with the content of your amendment, right?
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,044
Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #108 on:
October 12, 2015, 03:12:32 PM »
Well, under certain circumstances succession does spark activity. I did that when I first joined Atlasia in 2008.
But it's never a long term thing. Eventually the region returns or is forced to. If people want a confederation where regions basically govern themselves then that's fine, push for that. But combining the current system with free succession doesn't make sense to me. If the Feds have no teeth there's little point in having Feds at all if region X can just leave without any issue for not liking the federal abortion law or being against same sex marriage, etc.
Logged
Talleyrand
YaBB God
Posts: 4,323
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #109 on:
October 12, 2015, 03:25:37 PM »
It doesn't matter if the "theoretical argument for secession" is poor all around. That doesn't give the federal government a totalitarian right to prevent the self-determination of peoples. If a region wants to secede and does so by a democratic vote, the federal government should respect that decision and have mechanisms in place to deal with that (such as an automatic constitutional convention).
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,561
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #110 on:
October 12, 2015, 03:54:04 PM »
We cannot be constantly tearing down and rebuilding the union at the whim of 51% of one Region. This is a recipe for disaster, and would likely destroy both Atlasia and the recently-separated Regions. As Duke said, there's nothing to stop people from starting up a new nation outside of Atlasia (such as South America or the Papal Patch), but allowing them to compromise our territorial integrity is a very bad idea. No Region was forced to join Atlasia against its will, nor has any been deprived of the right to self-government - there is literally no reason they would need to separate from the Republic, except in desperate pursuit of a momentary activity buzz.
If you think that the Regions should be entirely self-governing, fine: reestablish the Articles of Confederation and abandon the federal system entirely. Otherwise, we need to recognize that the whole point of a federal union is its permanence, and any attempt to weaken this is will result in an unworkable government.
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 9,747
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #111 on:
October 12, 2015, 03:55:24 PM »
Quote from: Senator Truman on October 12, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
Oakvale and others have been pushing for Northeast independence for months now, yet this has not led to a significant increase in activity (the Northeast is active, yes, but this has little to do with with the secession movement).
grossly inaccurate, as usual, mr senator.
you see, very nearly 3/4 of legislative activity in the northeast over the past month comes from pro-independence legislators. and 60% of it comes from clyde and myself, both of whom have made it clear that we will resign if the referendum fails.
Logged
Clark Kent
ClarkKent
Sr. Member
Posts: 3,479
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #112 on:
October 12, 2015, 04:01:30 PM »
Quote from: low-energy loser evergreen on October 12, 2015, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: Senator Truman on October 12, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
Oakvale and others have been pushing for Northeast independence for months now, yet this has not led to a significant increase in activity (the Northeast is active, yes, but this has little to do with with the secession movement).
grossly inaccurate, as usual, mr senator.
you see, very nearly 3/4 of legislative activity in the northeast over the past month comes from pro-independence legislators. and 60% of it comes from clyde and myself, both of whom have made it clear that we will resign if the referendum fails.
Ms. Speaker, what are your sources for this? The only possible way for the Northeast Assembly to be 75% anti-Union is if I am the only pro-Union representative, and I am reasonably certain that that is not the case.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,561
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #113 on:
October 12, 2015, 04:07:53 PM »
Quote from: low-energy loser evergreen on October 12, 2015, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: Senator Truman on October 12, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
Oakvale and others have been pushing for Northeast independence for months now, yet this has not led to a significant increase in activity (the Northeast is active, yes, but this has little to do with with the secession movement).
grossly inaccurate, as usual, mr senator.
you see, very nearly 3/4 of legislative activity in the northeast over the past month comes from pro-independence legislators. and 60% of it comes from clyde and myself, both of whom have made it clear that we will resign if the referendum fails.
The fact that the most active members of the Northeast Assembly support secession does not prove that secession leads to greater activity: it merely proves that most active lawmakers are secessionists. The foremost leaders of the independence movement - yourself, Clyde, Oakvale, DemPGH - were active citizens long before secession was proposed. If you want to prove that secession leads to increased activity, you need to demonstrate that the Independence referendum has brought
new
voters to Atlasia, and this is clearly not the case.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
Atlas Star
Posts: 29,330
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #114 on:
October 12, 2015, 04:11:41 PM »
Quote from: tmthforu94 on October 12, 2015, 01:21:17 PM
I oppose NeverAgain's amendment. Should a region choose to secede, they should not have to go through the senate, much less the president, to do so.
As I was saying before, if people really want to secede then they will just do it, regardless of what the federal government has to say about it. The idea of regulating secession is an exercise in parody.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,293
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #115 on:
October 12, 2015, 06:31:20 PM »
I can see secession if you are living under a tyrannical central government, who is imposing their will on a region, and forcing you to live in fear, i.e. Russia/Ukraine.
But in a democracy with all the rights enjoyed by Atlasians, giving unquestioned authority to a group of malcontents to secede is ridiculous.
We have passed an amendment banning secession.
Time to move on.
Logged
Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,647
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #116 on:
October 12, 2015, 06:35:00 PM »
Quote from: Lincoln Republican on October 12, 2015, 06:31:20 PM
I can see secession if you are living under a tyrannical central government, who is imposing their will on a region, and forcing you to live in fear, i.e. Russia/Ukraine.
But in a democracy with all the rights enjoyed by Atlasians, giving unquestioned authority to a group of malcontents to secede is ridiculous.
We have passed an amendment banning secession.
Time to move on.
Hear hear.
Logged
Where We Griff 1 We Griff All
Adam Griffin
Atlas Icon
Posts: 17,971
Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #117 on:
October 12, 2015, 08:03:27 PM »
Quote from: tmthforu94 on October 12, 2015, 02:36:43 PM
Quote from: Duke on October 12, 2015, 02:17:10 PM
Just make a confederation of states that all have their own autonomy and be done with it.
That isn't a terrible idea. Perhaps create it in a way where the federal governments role is simple: monitor the regions.
It's a pretty bad idea. The only different would be that rabble-rousers would just start seceding counties or whatever the next relevant geographic area is at the time. It's a sentiment and not something contingent upon any one particular type of government.
Logged
MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 6,692
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #118 on:
October 12, 2015, 11:44:06 PM »
My fellow conservatives may think I'm a little off my rocker for this but there is precedence for the right of secession. Atlasia itself was and is the greatest secession movement because the mother country from which we came (the United Kingdom) denied us representation in her parliament while demanding that we pay taxes. The Declaration of Independence is a secessionist document
Just take in this paragraph for example
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security
.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Our very convention is assembled to alter our constitution to reform our nation and protect the liberties we all hold dear. While I agree with you that secession from a free and democratic nation to form another one is irrational, the right of self governance and autonomy is a right we all hold dear. Look at the brave people of Catalonia who want to break away from Spain. The region pays 20 percent of the total revenue that goes to Madrid while only receiving 14 back. Given Spain's history of dictatorships shouldn't Catalonia's bid for independence be given serious consideration. Given our recent unrest and failed coup by TNF, I think giving our 5 regions greater autonomy would be a good idea.
Logged
Leinad
YaBB God
Posts: 4,941
Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #119 on:
October 13, 2015, 01:56:23 AM »
«
Edited:
October 13, 2015, 01:58:45 AM
by
Governor Leinad »
Quote from: Duke on October 11, 2015, 01:22:14 PM
What's the point in having a country if you're just letting regions leave whenever they get angry?
Quote from: Lincoln Republican on October 12, 2015, 06:31:20 PM
But in a democracy with all the rights enjoyed by Atlasians, giving unquestioned authority to a group of malcontents to secede is ridiculous.
Opposing the Classic Conservative amendment doesn't imply support of the Evergreen amendment: a laissez-faire approach to secession. They're both positions that I think miss the point in different directions by assuming that all secessions are fundamentally equal, and there's never a time where their default position is wrong (I'd love to hear what Classic and those who back his amendment have to say about America's independence, or what Evergreen and those who back her amendment have to say about the Confederacy).
I think some people voted aye on the amendment to abolish the right of self-determination in all cases because they thought it was only a choice between those two options. At least, that's what Duke and Winfield make it sound like.
Quote from: Lumine on October 12, 2015, 01:46:05 PM
what is the point of seccession itself?
It certainly doesn't add a productive dynamic to the game
As former Senator Kalwejt said, it could add a layer to the game in diplomacy.
Probably a majority of people, including myself, have supported some level of relations with South America. An independent region would make it a three-way. Er, of diplomatic relations. (By the way, I wish we had about 10 times as many people so we could make 7 Atlasias and re-create the board game Diplomacy. Can I get an amen?)
I'm not sure why no one has brought it up, and why so many are reducing all secessions to nothing more than bratty children pitching a fit, and thus bringing nothing as far as activity to the game (a false assertion even with the current example--no matter what you think about the Northeast independence movement, it's created several threads worth of interesting discussion).
Quote from: Classic Conservative on October 12, 2015, 01:58:32 PM
I also object to NeverAgains Admendment we already have an Admendment that passed, we don't need to keep debating this forever and ever.
Quote from: Lincoln Republican on October 12, 2015, 06:31:20 PM
We have passed an amendment banning secession.
Time to move on.
10 people voted for it out of 25. It won by a single vote. It's as settled as Einstein's hair after a convertible ride.
To completely brush aside any additional arguments, or any compromise, or anything else whatsoever regarding this matter just because your prefered choice already passed (by the skin of it's teeth) is absurd and borderline undemocratic. I had to deal with this crap at the Provisional Parliament--it's annoying.
Also, I second JCL's defense of self-determination. It's demagogic to call something un-American/un-Atlasian, so I'll resist the urge, but this is a founding principle we're crushing like a baseball on mom's vase with barely a second thought.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 48,894
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #120 on:
October 13, 2015, 02:17:39 AM »
I have been pushing for greater powers to be devolved to the regions for years and since we are likely to have a legislative restart, now i the time to do it. However, I find seperatism to be just a bridge too far.
And to respond to Tmth's earlier posts. That is a false equivalency. Supporting regional rights does not equal supporting secession, and I have consistently supported regional rights, whilst also opposing every effort at secession that has occured since I have been here.
Logged
Leinad
YaBB God
Posts: 4,941
Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #121 on:
October 13, 2015, 02:22:43 AM »
I oppose NeverAgain's amendment as well, for the same reason that Tmth opposed it. BUT, I think it's the best idea so far.
Therefore, Mr. Presiding Officer, I'd like to propose this amendment (presumably to be voted on after NeverAgain's):
Quote
You must be
logged in
to read this quote.
I'd also be willing to add an emergency clause--perhaps that the federal government (however we decide to set that up) can overturn this with, say, a four-fifths majority of the senate. Or maybe a different safeguard--perhaps the governor has to approve it, or it can be overturned if one senator from each region agrees. And then I'd be willing to add a counter to
that
--if it passes the referendum by, say, a three-fourths vote, it will go through anyway.
Of course, these numbers are just placeholders. The point is that the right to self-determination isn't infringed, but it needs to be by more than a 50%+1 margin. It's all about checks and balances, people.
Logged
Classic Conservative
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,647
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #122 on:
October 13, 2015, 05:55:54 AM »
I object.
Logged
Clyde1998
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,938
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #123 on:
October 13, 2015, 06:13:41 AM »
Quote
You must be
logged in
to read this quote.
Logged
Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,345
Re: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (VOTING ON AMENDMENT)
«
Reply #124 on:
October 13, 2015, 06:24:27 AM »
I object, for the love of the gods, just how many amendments on seccession are we going to vote on?
Logged
Pages:
1
2
3
4
[
5
]
6
7
8
9
10
...
30
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> 2024 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2024 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2024 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> 2020 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2020 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2020 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2000 U.S. Presidential Election Results
=> Presidential Election Process
===> Polling
=> Presidential Election Trends
=> Election What-ifs?
===> Past Election What-ifs (US)
===> Alternative Elections
===> International What-ifs
-----------------------------
Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Gubernatorial/State Elections
===> 2022 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2021 & Odd Year Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> Congressional Elections
===> 2022 Senate & House Election Polls
=> International Elections
=> Election Predictions
-----------------------------
About this Site
-----------------------------
===> How To
=> The Atlas
-----------------------------
General Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Constitution and Law
=> Religion & Philosophy
=> History
===> Alternative History
-----------------------------
General Politics
-----------------------------
=> U.S. General Discussion
=> Political Geography & Demographics
=> International General Discussion
=> Economics
=> Individual Politics
=> Political Debate
===> Political Essays & Deliberation
===> Book Reviews and Discussion
-----------------------------
Election Archive
-----------------------------
=> Election Archive
===> 2018 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2018 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2016 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2016 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
===> 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=====> 2014 House Election Polls
=====> 2014 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2012 Elections
=====> 2012 Senatorial Election Polls
=====> 2012 House Election Polls
=====> 2012 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=====> 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
=====> 2012 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2010 Elections
=====> 2010 House Election Polls
=====> 2010 Senatorial Election Polls
=====> 2010 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 Elections
=====> 2008 Senatorial Election Polls
=====> 2008 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=====> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
=====> 2008 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
=====> 2008 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
===> 2006 Elections
=====> 2006 Senatorial Election Polls
=====> 2006 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election
=====> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
=====> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Polls
===> Town Hall
===> Survivor
===> 2020 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2020 Senate & House Election Polls
-----------------------------
Forum Community
-----------------------------
=> Forum Community
===> Forum Community Election Match-ups
=> Election and History Games
===> Mock Parliament
=> Off-topic Board
-----------------------------
Atlas Fantasy Elections
-----------------------------
=> Atlas Fantasy Elections
===> Voting Booth
=> Atlas Fantasy Government
===> Constitutional Convention
===> Regional Governments
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Terms of Service
-
DMCA Agent and Policy
-
Privacy Policy and Cookies
Powered by SMF 1.1.21
|
SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.059 seconds with 13 queries.
Loading...