“Neither of the NPR employees voted for Bush” (user search)
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  “Neither of the NPR employees voted for Bush” (search mode)
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Author Topic: “Neither of the NPR employees voted for Bush”  (Read 5797 times)
dazzleman
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Posts: 13,777
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

« on: May 11, 2005, 07:29:06 AM »

Your reasoning skills are pretty deficient.

Teachers are not the most intelligent or educated people in our society.  Nothing against them, but to base your view of what intelligent and educated people think on the opinion of teachers, and journalists for that matter, is not too smart.

The most educated person is not necessarily correct on the issues in any case.  Education can't grant common sense, or moral courage.

The reality is that there are both stupid and intelligent people who voted for Bush, and Kerry.  You keep making these ridiculous statements, with the reasoning ability of a 6th grader.  How old are you?
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dazzleman
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Posts: 13,777
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2005, 10:52:38 PM »

Not you.
Most other Republicans would, though.
I remember quite a few threads on "Why do Blacks not vote for us" in the run up to the election and while the wording was different, basically that's what most Reps (not you) said.

Both parties have people who say that those who vote for the other party are simply stupid.

In some cases, it's true, and in others it is not.  Plenty of very stupid people vote Democratic, as well as Republican.  I know highly ignorant Republicans who vote generally the same way as I do, but for very different reasons.  And when you get people in elite sections of Manhattan voting the same way as people in Bronx housing projects, you are seeing a different variation of the same phenomenon.

I think it's counterproductive to argue that people who vote for the other party are stupid.  You'll never pick up their votes that way.  Shira is echoing the same line as Howard Dean, and I don't see it attracting new voters to the party.
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dazzleman
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Posts: 13,777
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2005, 05:33:12 AM »


CA's educational system fell apart long before that, jfern.  They were the first to adopt the experimental education methods from the 60s and early 70s.  They are now among the last to drop these widely discredited programs.

What experimental education methods? I've haeard that CA had pretty good schools before Prop. 13 was passed in 1978.

Personal grammar (there is no proper grammar, write how you want), personal spelling (same as above, for spelling), hands off science instruction (let the kids loose in a field so they can learn biology) and a variety of other hair-brained, highly unsuccessful programs got their start in California before Prop 13 ever saw the ballot box.  Some schools still practice them.

Tredrick, I agree with you 100%.  Many hare-brained liberal ideas took over the educational establishment in the 1970s and served to dumb down education.  Liberals of course think the quality of education begins and ends with the level of money spent, and somehow what is spent is never enough for these people.

But the types of ideas that you describe have a lot to do with the decline of education.  It doesn't matter how much money you're spending, if you ignore spelling, grammar and science in favor of social indoctriation.

I remember those "science" programs well.  My 7th grade science class was in a chemistry lab, and we were supposed to do experiements, I guess, but that was never made clear, so we crumpled up paper balls and played modified golf, using the holes in the tables as our holes.  The teacher sat there and watched us.  We were "expressing our individuality" and of course, learning nothing.  This is the liberal approach to education in full bloom.  And this was an affluent school district with excellent facilities and a high per-pupil spending rate on education.

I remember at my brother's school there was a federally funded program called WEDGE - "writing every day generates excellence."  The essence of it was that nothing should impede a child's writing creativity, and by nothing, I mean things like spelling, grammar, sentence structure, etc.  My mom was outraged about the program, and cited the fact that it was federally funded, and that it was used in New York City schools, as proof that it was no good (she was right).  The district eventually had to get rid of it, but they first implemented it because it allowed them to get a federal grant.  This is the insidious nature of misguided federal involvement.

ESL is another boondoggle.  Kids are maintained and taught in a foreign language at the precise time when they could learn English most easily with a more aggressive immersion program.  In New York, the program is so bad that kids whose native language isn't even Spanish are placed in programs where they are taught in Spanish.  There's an ugly political agenda at play here, with "community activists" trying to prevent latinos from being assimilated, because they're easier to control when they're isolated, as well as the more venial and petty desire to maintain and expand the funding for these worse-than-useless programs as a pork barrel measure.

Keep preaching the truth, man.
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dazzleman
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Posts: 13,777
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2005, 03:54:54 PM »

Shira is correct, the educated states, measured by the 2002 data on what percentage of people 25 or older have a bachelor's degree, tended to vote for Kerry.

Perhaps some states with high HS graduation rates and low rates of bachelor's degrees did not do a good job of preparing their kids for college.

Maryland        37.6
Colorado    35.7
Virginia    34.6
Massachusetts    34.3
Connecticut    32.6
New Jersey    31.4
Vermont            30.8
Minnesota    30.5
New Hampshire    30.1
Rhode Island    30.1
Delaware    29.5
Kansas            29.1
New York    28.8
Washington    28.3
California    27.9
Illinois    27.3
Nebraska    27.1
Oregon            27.1
Hawaii            26.8
Utah            26.8
Missouri    26.7
Arizona            26.3
Texas            26.2
Pennsylvania    26.1
Florida            25.7
Alaska            25.6
New Mexico    25.4
North Dakota    25.3
Georgia            25.0
Wisconsin    24.7
Ohio            24.5
Maine            23.8
Indiana            23.7
Montana            23.6
South Dakota    23.6
South Carolina    23.3
Iowa            23.1
Alabama            22.7
Michigan    22.5
North Carolina    22.4
Louisiana    22.1
Nevada            22.1
Kentucky    21.6
Tennessee    21.5
Idaho            20.9
Mississippi    20.9
Oklahoma    20.4
Wyoming            19.6
Arkansas    18.3
West Virginia    15.9

What this doesn't tell you is which people within those so-called educated states voted for Bush, versus Kerry. 

If a state with a high percentage of college grads voted 51% for Kerry and 49% for Bush, while a state with a low percentage of college grads voted 51% for Bush and 49% for Kerry, does that mean that more educated people voted for Kerry?  You can't come to a valid conclusion through a high level state analysis like that.  Exit polls show that college graduates favored Bush, and that is probably more valid than your state-by-state analysis, which doesn't identify the educational status of the large minority of people within the state who voted for the candidate who did not carry that state.

Shira's logic is that of a sixth grader, and her statements are so stupid as to be grating.  She doesn't know s**t from apple butter as far as I'm concerned.
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