There shouldn't be a stigma against rules simply to avoid being like Atlasia
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  There shouldn't be a stigma against rules simply to avoid being like Atlasia
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Author Topic: There shouldn't be a stigma against rules simply to avoid being like Atlasia  (Read 1000 times)
Leinad
Junior Chimp
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« on: August 22, 2015, 09:12:29 PM »

I'm seeing an alarming trend here in South America, and that trend is that "legalism" (i.e. asking for clarifications, amending bills, and having rules) is considered bad because people have determined that was the "death" of Atlasia.

Exhibit A:

Is there any rule that states that the Speaker must be an MP?

Oh look: Atlasian-style legalism. It doesn't take long does it? But implicitly the chair of any assembly or group is a member of that assembly or group.

No, Al, asking an important question about rules is not "legalism." It's a very legitimate question.

I mean, maybe if we had a basic Constitution Türkisblau could look at that to determine what's legal or not, but Atlasia had a Constitution, so we can't do that...

Exhibit B is also from Al, coincidently:

I move that we strike subsection six, paragraph eight, line four.

This is obviously satire, I get that, but it's rooted in the idea that amending bills is inherently evil. I mean, if subsection six, paragraph eight, line four is crap, you're damn right we should strike it!

Here's my point: being intentionally casual to avoid repeating the perceived mistakes of Atlasia is very, very, very ridiculous. A legislative body is greatly weakened if there's a stigma against rules, asking for clarification on things, or amending bills.

Everyone seems to be going out of their way to oppose these things (rules, clarification, amendments) in a furious effort to be the anti-Atlasia. This isn't a long term strategy. If you're going to go through with this idiotic ban on simultaneous office-holding, the two nations will be directly competing with each other for active players. If this is the reality everyone wants, being nothing but the bitter anti-Atlasia is a losing strategy.

Turk gets it basically right:

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Simfan34
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2015, 10:00:23 PM »

Convention or Death! If it works for the Mother of Parliaments, it should work for us.
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Leinad
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 10:48:53 PM »

Convention or Death! If it works for the Mother of Parliaments, it should work for us.

Okay, but this isn't a "we should have a constitution" thread, that was just one paragraph.

My point is that this whole "NO LEGALISM!!!!1!" stuff is very annoying, and not conducive to growing the game (especially if you make it a direct competition by putting a ban on simultaneous officeholding).
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afleitch
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2015, 06:03:24 AM »

Yeah. This is getting ridiculous.
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Blair
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2015, 08:17:30 AM »

You shouldn't be able to hold office in two games that have diplomatic relations with each other, that just doesn't make snese
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Leinad
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2015, 09:46:06 AM »

You shouldn't be able to hold office in two games that have diplomatic relations with each other, that just doesn't make snese

For one thing, they don't yet have diplomatic relations with each other, unless I missed something.

For another thing, that misses the point: it's basically universally agreed that Atlasia doesn't have enough active people for five regions. Why the hell do you think we can handle 2 countries?!? That just doesn't make sense!

And lastly, that was only one sentence in my post. The main point has still been left unanswered.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 10:22:48 AM »

The last election in Atlasia had 39% turnout. We had 98%, and only about ten votes less in nominal terms. That's a clear signal that we're a thriving democracy and they are a failed state. Smiley

As Minister for Justice I do plan to introduce the nationalism bill, but as a compromise I am willing to limit it to simply the Prime Minister and Foreign minister (and any diplomat we may appoint) for the time being.
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Leinad
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 10:55:47 AM »

The last election in Atlasia had 39% turnout. We had 98%, and only about ten votes less in nominal terms. That's a clear signal that we're a thriving democracy and they are a failed state. Smiley

As Minister for Justice I do plan to introduce the nationalism bill, but as a compromise I am willing to limit it to simply the Prime Minister and Foreign minister (and any diplomat we may appoint) for the time being.

That's a good compromise! I like it much better than the alternative, thanks! Smiley

Turnout statistics mean very little when every registered voter signed up within the last week or so, and thus still has interest. Many Atlasians signed up a long time ago, and have lost interest since then. I'm sure turnout will decrease as time goes on, although probably not to Atlasian levels. We simply don't know. I'd wager a guess that it would be much lower if a full simultaneous officeholding ban was put in place, however. So, again, I'm glad to see you aren't going that route!
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Blair
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 10:57:14 AM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch
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Leinad
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 11:34:38 AM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...
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Blair
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 12:08:19 PM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

It's a metaphor
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Cranberry
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 01:09:43 PM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

Gosh, you must be fun at parties... Roll Eyes
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Leinad
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 01:26:22 PM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

Gosh, you must be fun at parties... Roll Eyes

When I don't get metaphors (I didn't get this one), responding with deadpan literalness is my go-to response. I knew it was a metaphor, it was just a rather odd one and I'm unsure what he meant by it.
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Cranberry
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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 02:26:10 PM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

Gosh, you must be fun at parties... Roll Eyes

When I don't get metaphors (I didn't get this one), responding with deadpan literalness is my go-to response. I knew it was a metaphor, it was just a rather odd one and I'm unsure what he meant by it.

That didn't exactly disprove my point, you know.
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 01:09:01 AM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

Gosh, you must be fun at parties... Roll Eyes

Gosh, this is so relevant... Roll Eyes
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Cranberry
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 11:33:20 AM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

Gosh, you must be fun at parties... Roll Eyes

Gosh, this is so relevant... Roll Eyes

The very same could be said about your reply.
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Leinad
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 12:37:09 PM »

There's a reason no-one wants to sit with Atlasia at lunch

Well, yeah, because it's an internet elections/government simulation game...it doesn't eat lunch...

Gosh, you must be fun at parties... Roll Eyes

When I don't get metaphors (I didn't get this one), responding with deadpan literalness is my go-to response. I knew it was a metaphor, it was just a rather odd one and I'm unsure what he meant by it.

That didn't exactly disprove my point, you know.

But your point is completely irrelevant. I would be derailing the thread to disprove it.

I think my point (that everyone's going crazy with the whole "NO LEGALISM!!!" stuff) is more important that a silly discussion of how fun Leinad is at parties.
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