Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread

[Beezer]

Austrian police turning cars back into Hungary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYm7p0xjSac

[Beezer]

Austria expects 60,000 migrants to enter the country today.

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article145529161/Oesterreich-rechnet-mit-60-000-Migranten-an-einem-Tag.html

[Beezer]

Austria expects 60,000 migrants to enter the country today.

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article145529161/Oesterreich-rechnet-mit-60-000-Migranten-an-einem-Tag.html

Could someone fill me in on the Hungary/Austria situation? Has the Hungarian government just given up working with the Austrians on this?

From what I understand the Hungarians are liquid...I mean closing the Röszke camp. Starting tomorrow, the Hungarians will at least officially arrest any illegal migrants. So there's a huge wave heading towards Austria at the moment. And I'm sure the Hungarians aren't too mad either about anybody entering and leaving the country until midnight today (saves them a lot of work related to arrests after all).

[Beezer]

Hungary's Mad Max train:

[Beezer]

[Beezer]

[Beezer]

In the future people are going to look back on these events and wonder why everyone was burying their heads in the sand.  There is no doubt radicalized jihadists are crossing the border with the migrants, and the terrorist attacks that will come with it will have been so preventable.

Well, it's not really everyone but just the Germans. I really don't know what's happened with Merkel these past few weeks. Respect for the rule of law and concerns about safety have been thrown overboard. I mean what is the point in keeping tabs on potential terrorists if you now just allow everyone from Syria to come in with no questions asked. How the hell a head of government can act in such a reckless manner is beyond me.

[Beezer]

I really don't know what's happened with Merkel these past few weeks.

I conjecture she is simply a decent human being.

Is Austria a warzone? She singlehandedly destroyed a European agreement in a single night. Politicians are asked to act on a rational, not an emotional basis and look beyond the immediate future. Her decisions will have changed Germany - and in my opinion not for the better.

I am also a decent human being which is why I think Europe needs to do more to bring the Syrian war to an end, improve the conditions in the camps in neighboring countries (because there are plenty of people who don't have the money to go on a perilous journey to Europe) and help ensure that the country will afterwards not be robbed of its best and brightest people.

[Beezer]

What makes you think Muslim minorities would embrace a civic nationalism? There's a reason why many European countries are quite specific when it comes to limiting immigration from certain regions...

[Beezer]

EU passes pointless relocation scheme, in the process fueling euroscepticism across the continent. All in a day's fudge...

[Beezer]

Daily migrant arrivals in Hungary:

[Beezer]

ZDF asks...is the cohesion of the EU severely threatened by the refugee crisis?


http://www.heute.de/fluechtlingskrise-fast-zwei-drittel-sehen-zusammenhalt-in-der-eu-gefaehrdet-einbussen-fuer-merkel-40264654.html

Merkel's popularity has also dropped. On a scale of +5 to -5, here score now stands at 1.9, down from 2.4 earlier this September. This is her worst result of the current parliament.

[Beezer]

Hmm, this is the kind of story that could really help the AfD: Nurse with a rather measly salary is told to move out of her apartment so that migrants can move in. http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article146825325/Fuer-Fluechtlinge-gekuendigt-Das-war-wie-ein-Tritt.html

[Beezer]

There's a rumor going around (started by Der Spiegel) that Merkel is willing to grant all Syrian refugees a 3 year residence permit with no questions asked (i.e. w/o any sort of asylum procedure). This is supposed to help speed up the asylum process for other applicants. Just like most other Merkel proposals, this is of course an unmitigated disaster since anyone able to afford a $800 Syrian passport would get an all expenses paid 3 year stay in Germany. The chancellery promptly denied the report but I wouldn't put it past the government to actually do this.

[Beezer]

Apparently German officials are now worried that the next big wave of migrants will come from Afghanistan (with the country sustaining a monthly exodus of 100,000 people). http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article146898033/Neue-Fluechtlingswelle-aus-Afghanistan-befuerchtet.html

[Beezer]

Poll #s are indicating a pretty major shift in attitudes in Germany (compared to polling data from September):

It scares me that so many refugees are coming into the country:



Does immigration bring advantages/disadvantages?



Are you satisfied with the work of

[Beezer]

Well, these kinds of fights are an almost daily occurance in Germany now.

[Beezer]

This is one of the oddest mass brawl stories I've come across...Albanians (what the hell are they doing in these camps anyway) recently introduced a fee all other nationalities had to pay for using sanitary facilities in a German refugee camp. Syrians did not take too kindly to this, leading to a fight that had to be brought to an end by the police.

http://www.mopo.de/polizei/wilhelmsburg-massenschlaegerei--im-fluechtlingslager,7730198,32098958.html?dmcid=sm_tw

[Beezer]

If only people like Steinmeier and Gabriel could take action and introduce measures to curtail migration...oh wait.

[Beezer]

Well, there was a guillotine at an anti-TTIP rally as well. People shouldn't make too much out of stuff like this.

[Beezer]

I wish you were as concerned about the # of Jihadists that have probably entered Europe over the past couple of months thanks to failed migrant policies as you are over a simple, admittedly distasteful, piece of DIY protest paraphernalia. It was a mock gallows. I've seen plenty of those in protests across the western world w/o people getting their panties in a twist over them.

Cf.: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/anti-austerity-protesters-hang-suited-10203538

Now to address 2 particular points:

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Yes, two wrongs don't make a right. What annoys people though is that the media and state prosecutors see only one wrong in all of this. To be honest I didn't even come across the Anti-TTIP thing until today and I most certainly didn't see it in any mainstream media outlets. Now why is that the case? Could it be because TTIP-protesters are widely perceived to be relatively leftist? At the same time though the mock gallows were at the top of virtually every German media website earlier today.

And who cares about "originality"? Fact of the matter is that the whole thing is blown out of proportion, particularly at a time when we essentially have freedom of movement from the Middle East and NAfrica to the heart of Europe.

[Beezer]

There are always going to be crazy people. I think we should wait before somehow laying the blame at the feet of everyone critical of Merkel's migrant policies. Of course you just know the mainstream parties will pounce on this and declare that all those not in favor of the government's position have blood on their hands.

[Beezer]

There are always going to be crazy people. I think we should wait before somehow laying the blame at the feet of everyone critical of Merkel's migrant policies. Of course you just know the mainstream parties will pounce on this and declare that all those not in favor of the government's position have blood on their hands.

Well, judging from what you can read in respective blogs, Internet forums and Facebook groups there are huge portions of the Pegida/pro-AfD scene which use a totally overblown, martial rethoric in their discussions. They talk about how Merkel committed "high treason" with her immigration policies and that Germans have a "right to resist" against that in accordance with Article 20, Section 4 of the constitution and so on. And it's always possible, if not likely, that someone will take that crap a little too serious at some point. The gallows at the Pegida rally in Dresden was the first step, this is the next. The next level will probably letter bombs to party headquarters or something like that.

Meh, how's this any different from what you will encounter on left wing sites and their rhetoric towards governmental/state institutions? Obviously an attack like this is despicable but blaming a party like the AfD for the actions of a single lunatic is completely ridiculous.

[Beezer]

Afghan refugee stabbed and killed another Afghan in a refugee accomodation in eastern Germany. Then proceeded to stab an innocent bystander on the street who is now seriously injured as well.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/fluechtlinge-asylbewerber-bei-streit-toedlich-verletzt-a-1058354.html

German police union now calls for a fence to be erected at Germany's border:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-polizeigewerkschaft-fordert-grenzzaun-a-1058353.html

[Beezer]

How come leftists never realize that shipping millions of people into the developed world isn't going to "share the privileges" but only make things far worse for many people? It's completely self-defeating anyway since an expansive welfare state only really works in largely homogeneous (and small) nations. So the more foreigners they bring in, the smaller support for the welfare state is going to be.

But hey, it's not like reality has ever affected left-wing social and economic policies. If it did, they'd be the biggest proponents of capitalism which has lifted more people out of poverty than socialism ever will.