Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[Zinneke]

And please, keep Israel-Palestine issue out of the Dutch election thread.

This is the height of dishonesty, dude. You are the one who keeps doing this. You are the one coming up with the double loyalty canard and the edgy DENK parallel everytime I post something about either the PVV or DENK, and I, as opposed to you, actually contribute stuff to this thread otherwise. You need to stop.

Beter zwijgen als ge niets over weet

No, man, I'm pretty sure the first flare up of your identity that you so desperatley need to share was because we were talking about Turks who had allegiances with the AKP, which had paralells to your situation as an Israeli-Dutch dual citizen. Regardless the AKP was big issue at the time, then you turned into an issue solely about being Jewish, when that wasn't the subject. And now yet again, you have derailed another big issue in this campaign into the subject of Jewish identity, or anti-Semitism, which you seem to do on a consistent basis on this board.

And yes, you are an excellent poster otherwise, you provide good content, I am not questioning that. When Belgium comes into scrutiny maybe I can provide something like this, maybe not. But in the mean time I and the others here comment on here to add our views on the subjects at hand. If you want nobody to comment, start a blog and share it here

[DavidB.]

Kantar Public found that turnout would only be 67% if the election took place today, confirming political scientist Kees Aarts' impression that turnout will most likely be lower than in 2012. I expect some people to make up their minds next week, but would not be surprised if turnout eventually dips below the 1998 all-time low of 73.4%. Reasons: voters don't know what is at stake, the campaign does not have a clear theme, most parties don't focus on one particular issue, and there is no two-horse race. PvdA leader Asscher, who today published a large ad in De Volkskrant in an attempt to court PvdA-2012 voters who are now inclined to vote GL or D66, already said he is afraid many left-wing voters will stay home (though I think it is mainly the PVV who should be very scared right now).

Tonight, a one-on-one debate in EenVandaag between Roemer and Asscher took place. I didn't watch, but judging by the newspapers it was exactly what one would expect it to be. Asscher refused to rule out cooperating with the VVD after the election.

[DavidB.]

I&O has a tool that shows the amount of support parties have among certain demographics on the basis of the last poll. Treat with caution.

Interesting finding: women are much more likely to still being undecided than men.

[Tender Branson]

The Dutch government has banned the entry of the Turkish foreign minister by revoking the landing permit for his plane ...

He wanted to give a large rally in front of Dutch-Turks in Rotterdam, after which the mayor there said he can go and f**k himself. The Turkish foreign minister then said he'll still campaign there, which led the Dutch government to issue the landing ban.

Turkey and Erdogan now calls the Netherlands "Nazi" and "Fascists" and that they will "retaliate" against the Netherlands ...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/turkish-foreign-minister-determined-visit-netherlands-46063981

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

"I'm still coming!"
"No, you're not."

[Bumaye]

He wanted to give a large rally in front of Dutch-Turks in Rotterdam, after which the mayor there said he can go and f**k himself. 
   
Turkey and Erdogan now calls the Netherlands "Nazi" and "Fascists" and that they will "retaliate" against the Netherlands ...

   
 
Which is especially ridiculous when you realize that the mayor of Rotterdam is Ahmed Aboutaleb, a Muslim born in Morocco.

[DavidB.]

This is the language they understand. Was not a big supporter of all this initially, but I have to say that if he ends up not visiting the Netherlands, the government has handled this neatly. But that's a big "if". Apparently the Turkish FM now wants to fly to Brussels and then drive to Rotterdam. A nice example of why we need to revoke Schengen.

[Tender Branson]

He wanted to give a large rally in front of Dutch-Turks in Rotterdam, after which the mayor there said he can go and f**k himself. 
   
Turkey and Erdogan now calls the Netherlands "Nazi" and "Fascists" and that they will "retaliate" against the Netherlands ...

   
 
Which is especially ridiculous when you realize that the mayor of Rotterdam is Ahmed Aboutaleb, a Muslim born in Morocco.

Why would that be ridiculous ?

The mayor of Rotterdam, no matter if he's a Muslim or not, is serving the people of Rotterdam and he's not a slave to Erdogan and his Islamo-Fascist abettors ...

[Tender Branson]

This is the language they understand. Was not a big supporter of all this initially, but I have to say that if he ends up not visiting the Netherlands, the government has handled this neatly. But that's a big "if". Apparently the Turkish FM now wants to fly to Brussels and then drive to Rotterdam.

Damn, how I hate these Turkish agitators ...

[Zinneke]

Way to go, Turkey, handing this election on Rutte's lap.
This also bodes well for the refugee crisis.

[DavidB.]

Other news I forgot to post: candidate 24 on the GroenLinks list, Maya van der Steenhoven, yesterday said she would not assume her seat if elected after it became clear that she is the director of Sky Wing International Commercial Co, a shady business at the Seychelles mentioned in the Panama Papers. Incredible.

Meanwhile, Erdogan has called the Netherlands Nazis and fascists (after calling Germany Nazis earlier this week). Comedy gold.

[Tender Branson]

Meanwhile, Erdogan has called the Netherlands Nazis and fascists (after calling Germany Nazis earlier this week). Comedy gold.

Yeah.

He also called Austria the same.

Plus, one Turkish cabinet member said Austria is "committing crimes against humanity" (by not letting them campaign).

And another cabinet member posted on Twitter: "To Austrian Chancellor Kern: F**k off !"

http://www.krone.at/oesterreich/oesterreich-begeht-verbrechen-gegen-menschlichkeit-erdogan-regime-story-558426

[Angel of Death]

In a twisted sense, this is a stroke of genius by the Erdoğan regime. They knew that the added sensitivity of the imminent Dutch election would help provoke this diplomatic incident, allowing them to incite the nationalistic sentiment that will help them win their referendum. It's Putin-tier in its reckless audacity.

[Dutch Conservative]

In a twisted sense, this is a stroke of genius by the Erdoğan regime. They knew that the added sensitivity of the imminent Dutch election would help provoke this diplomatic incident, allowing them to incite the nationalistic sentiment that will help them win their referendum. It's Putin-tier in its reckless audacity.

Indeed, in a bizar way this news will benefit the parties VVD, PVV and Denk. Still proud of our government for acting this way.

[DavidB.]

Family Affairs Minister Kaya will go to Rotterdam by car. Erdo has threatened to revoke the landing permissions for passenger planes from the Netherlands. Truly a present for Geert Wilders, while he blew his own campaign, lol.

[Tender Branson]

Family Affairs Minister Kaya will go to Rotterdam by car. Erdo has threatened to revoke the landing permissions for passenger planes from the Netherlands. Truly a present for Geert Wilders, while he blew his own campaign, lol.

Erodgan is just cutting himself in his own flesh with these actions ...

Apparently, he doesn't know that Germans/Dutch/Austrians are representing 90% of tourists in and around the Antalya coast.

Bookings from Austria to Turkey are already down 80% in February compared with last year, with many opting for less-troubled regions such as Spain, Italy, Croatia and Greece.

If Erdogan also pisses off Germany and Holland (and as a result, tourists from there), this will also hurt the workers on the Turkish coast - which in effect will turn against Erogan in the long-term.

[Tender Branson]

Family Affairs Minister Kaya will go to Rotterdam by car.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[2952-0-0]

Why aren't any of these European politicians calling out Erdogan for his Nazi comparisons by pointing out that the Nazis harassed opposition parties and jailed critical journalists while promising to make the country great again?

[Tender Branson]

Why aren't any of these European politicians calling out Erdogan for his Nazi comparisons by pointing out that the Nazis harassed opposition parties and jailed critical journalists while promising to make the country great again?

Sebastian Kurz did so (and Angela Merkel as well today) ...

[Zinneke]

Why aren't any of these European politicians calling out Erdogan for his Nazi comparisons by pointing out that the Nazis harassed opposition parties and jailed critical journalists while promising to make the country great again?

What?
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20161128STO53408/eu-turkey-relations-“we-are-entering-a-new-phase”

[ApatheticAustrian]

erdogan is no putin....he is not planning, he is just DOING IT, cause he feels like it, like any random strongman.

there really really is  no reason why the destruction of turkey's liberal tradition and democratic institutions must be promoted in european cities.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

erdogan is no putin....he is not planning, he is just DOING IT, cause he feels like it, like any random strongman.

there really really is  no reason why the destruction of turkey's liberal tradition and democratic institutions must be promoted in european cities.

Are you talking about a different turkey, or what? The country has never been a liberal country, and has only occasionally been democratic.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Are you talking about a different turkey, or what? The country has never been a liberal country, and has only occasionally been democratic.

compared to nearly every other state in the region, turkey is quite a democratic state and was ofc kind-of liberal since Atatürk. one could ofc make the case that this was kind of liberal autocracy but i am pretty sure this traditions are a major reason why the country is ...or has been...a major powerhouse in the last years, compared to its less liberal and otherwise even more conservative neighbours.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Atatürk was never a liberal, and had no interest in creating a liberal country. Even his much vaunted secularism was a bit of a sham - after all, he had no problem with marching troops into Yazidi communities, shooting their elders and forcibly converting them to Islam. Kemalism was never a democratic or liberal idelaogy; merely a sort of cargo cult that seemed to emulate western countries with the impression prosperity would follow (the logic that says if you ban fezzes and adopt a Latin alphabet somehow success will follow). He bears far more in common with conservative nation builders like Bismarck than anything else.

In fact, one could argue Erdogan (especially the latter day Erdogan) is mainly awful because he combines the worst aspects of Turkish nationalism (which Kemal codified), with smug Islamism.

[ApatheticAustrian]

In fact, one could argue Erdogan (especially the latter day Erdogan) is mainly awful because he combines the worst aspects of Turkish nationalism (which Kemal codified), with smug Islamism.

since i have learned a lot about turkey during the last years, i agree with you in many ways, especially regarding the nationalism which is often the course of honor killings and the military supreme command was surely the real power behind the state.

i see it that way:

atatürk in some pushed turkey to become a modern state, without making it liberal in any modern sense of the word.

but...that state was imho well-organized enough, to at least lay the foundation for later things to come..... which were realized in erdogan's early years.

now we live through the rollback, both of erdogan's early pro-democratic reforms AND of atatürk's national-secular vision.

i agree, kemalism is far more guilty than often seen in the west, but i think it still was a solid fundament for better things to come....now we live through the worst of both worlds.