1988: Why did Dukukis pick Lloyd Bensten?
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  1988: Why did Dukukis pick Lloyd Bensten?
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Author Topic: 1988: Why did Dukukis pick Lloyd Bensten?  (Read 2880 times)
Thunderbird is the word
Zen Lunatic
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« on: May 29, 2015, 12:43:11 PM »

In heinseight, despite his epic takedown of Dan Quayle in the VP debate Bensten was really kind of a stupid pick strategically. Dukukis should have known that he couldn't beat Bush in Texas and gone with a Midwesterner instead, someone like John Glenn.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 01:40:05 PM »

Bentsen consistently had the highest favorable ratings of any of the four. A smarter strategy for Dukakis would have been to go into hiding and pretend that Bentsen was at the top of the ticket.

In heinseight, despite his epic takedown of Dan Quayle in the VP debate Bensten was really kind of a stupid pick strategically. Dukukis should have known that he couldn't beat Bush in Texas and gone with a Midwesterner instead, someone like John Glenn.

Texas was much less Republican back then.
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retromike22
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 01:40:13 PM »

Al Gore or Bill Clinton could have been interesting picks.
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Podgy the Bear
mollybecky
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 02:56:00 PM »

Al Gore or Bill Clinton could have been interesting picks.



Clinton would have been an interesting pick--but I'm sure he's happy that didn't happen!
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Kevin
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 03:51:33 PM »

Bentsen consistently had the highest favorable ratings of any of the four. A smarter strategy for Dukakis would have been to go into hiding and pretend that Bentsen was at the top of the ticket.

In heinseight, despite his epic takedown of Dan Quayle in the VP debate Bensten was really kind of a stupid pick strategically. Dukukis should have known that he couldn't beat Bush in Texas and gone with a Midwesterner instead, someone like John Glenn.

Texas was much less Republican back then.

I mean if you have to "go into hiding and pretend your VP is at the top of the ticket" then you've already lost then.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2015, 03:56:06 PM »

He thought he would deliver Texas.
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Sumner 1868
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2015, 03:57:58 PM »

Dukakis had this strange idea that he was JFK's Second Coming-a Massachusetts politician with a Texan running-mate launching a Democratic renaissance after eight years of Republican plague. Since Carter had crashed so spectacularly, and an 1964-style victory impossible, Kennedy seemed the model to follow. Democrats only wrote off the South after 2000, and early on Dukakis was actually competitive in border states.
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retromike22
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 04:08:04 PM »

Dukakis had this strange idea that he was JFK's Second Coming-a Massachusetts politician with a Texan running-mate launching a Democratic renaissance after eight years of Republican plague. Since Carter had crashed so spectacularly, and an 1964-style victory impossible, Kennedy seemed the model to follow. Democrats only wrote off the South after 2000, and early on Dukakis was actually competitive in border states.

When I look at the 1988 map, it's so bizarre to see WV Democratic but not Vermont, CT, MD, and DE.
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Dancing with Myself
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 04:44:55 PM »

Dukakis wanted to appeal to southerners/moderates in the east plus getting a conservative VP might help get the Reagan dems back. He didn't have many choices besides Jackson being loud about it but besides Gore or Clinton Bentsen was a good pick. But the move did reek of Kennedy there, Dukakis was trying to get back to that style of the Democratic party but he wasn't inspiring or legitimate enough  to do it.

Clinton would have been an interesting choice though. He and Duke were good friends and had a lot of respect for each other so they probably could have gotten along good. He would have been as big of a personality as Bentsen was maybe more and he could have helped more in the south possibly. But if they'd lost he would have been known as Dukakis's VP and would have had to shaken that off in 1992.

Then in an alternate universe there could have been a Gore/Clinton ticket for the Dems in 1988; imagine how weird that would have been.
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Thunderbird is the word
Zen Lunatic
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 09:11:05 PM »

Bentsen consistently had the highest favorable ratings of any of the four. A s

Texas was much less Republican back then.

true, but with his opponent from Texas I would think.it'd be out of play. Then again maybe he thought that Bentsen as a native against Bush the Yalie transplant might have helped put it in play.
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Hydera
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 09:51:53 PM »

Dukakis had this strange idea that he was JFK's Second Coming-a Massachusetts politician with a Texan running-mate launching a Democratic renaissance after eight years of Republican plague. Since Carter had crashed so spectacularly, and an 1964-style victory impossible, Kennedy seemed the model to follow. Democrats only wrote off the South after 2000, and early on Dukakis was actually competitive in border states.

When I look at the 1988 map, it's so bizarre to see WV Democratic but not Vermont, CT, MD, and DE.



West Virginia had an economic slump from 1979 that didn't end until 1994. Lots of Socially conservative democrats that went for Reagan in 1984 because Mondale was seen as too liberal. Dukakis choosing Bensten instead of a liberal northerner like mondale did with ferraro might of convinced them to come back along with people voting for dukakis out of protest over the economic slump in the state.

Also democrats were not as environmentalist as they were back in 1988. Environmentalism was largely just "make factories adopt stuff to stop pollution" not post-2000. When it became "shut down coal plants to reduce CO2". The heart of West Virginia industry is coal and democrats might of still won West Virginia post-1996 by never adopting carbon reduction policies but at the same time pissing off the environmentalist base.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2015, 10:01:02 PM »

Prior to 1992, I don't think a Democrat had ever won the Presidency without winning Texas.

It was seen a pretty-much a Democratic "must have" to get to 270.
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bobloblaw
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2015, 08:26:50 AM »

He tried to be JFK all over again.
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bobloblaw
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2015, 08:28:44 AM »

I wish Dukakis had won. No Clinton and maybe (though not likely) no Bush.

Dukakis would have been one term. He likely would have dithered when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The higher oil prices combined with the 1991 recession would have doomed the Dem party in 92. Not sure who the GOP nominee would have been. Dole or Kemp most likely.
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Podgy the Bear
mollybecky
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2015, 04:10:51 PM »

I wish Dukakis had won. No Clinton and maybe (though not likely) no Bush.

Dukakis would have been one term. He likely would have dithered when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The higher oil prices combined with the 1991 recession would have doomed the Dem party in 92. Not sure who the GOP nominee would have been. Dole or Kemp most likely.

Somewhat similar scenario to 1928-- prior to the Great Depression, in which a Democratic loss was a blessing in disguise for the party.

Agree that Dukakis would have dithered on Saddam.  Bush and (James) Baker did a great job on getting diplomacy to work and get world opinion on our side.  Too bad there doesn't seem to be any of that in the Republican Party today.
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Hydera
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2015, 04:14:20 PM »

I wish Dukakis had won. No Clinton and maybe (though not likely) no Bush.

Dukakis would have been one term. He likely would have dithered when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The higher oil prices combined with the 1991 recession would have doomed the Dem party in 92. Not sure who the GOP nominee would have been. Dole or Kemp most likely.

Somewhat similar scenario to 1928-- prior to the Great Depression, in which a Democratic loss was a blessing in disguise for the party.

Agree that Dukakis would have dithered on Saddam.  Bush and (James) Baker did a great job on getting diplomacy to work and get world opinion on our side.  Too bad there doesn't seem to be any of that in the Republican Party today.



Along with 2004. I know the people who still wished that Kerry was elected are those who were really hardcore into leaving iraq ASAP.

But Kerry would of faced a major loss in 2008 as well with possibly a historic GOP majority in the House and senate. If kerry was president during the financial crisis.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 07:58:36 PM »

Dukakis had this strange idea that he was JFK's Second Coming-a Massachusetts politician with a Texan running-mate launching a Democratic renaissance after eight years of Republican plague. Since Carter had crashed so spectacularly, and an 1964-style victory impossible, Kennedy seemed the model to follow. Democrats only wrote off the South after 2000, and early on Dukakis was actually competitive in border states.

Dukakis didnt think he was gonna win South, he did good in Ia and WI. He thought he would duplicate the midwest strategy that Carter did well in as well as OH.

The Elder Bush overperformed among female voters, and Kitty Dukakis did Dukakis no favors, too.
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Clarence Boddicker
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2015, 04:19:25 PM »

Along with 2004. I know the people who still wished that Kerry was elected are those who were really hardcore into leaving iraq ASAP.

But Kerry would of faced a major loss in 2008 as well with possibly a historic GOP majority in the House and senate. If kerry was president during the financial crisis.

Yeah, I remember thinking prior to the election that whatever party won in 2004 was most likely going to lose in 2008.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2015, 05:35:31 PM »

Dukakis had this strange idea that he was JFK's Second Coming-a Massachusetts politician with a Texan running-mate launching a Democratic renaissance after eight years of Republican plague. Since Carter had crashed so spectacularly, and an 1964-style victory impossible, Kennedy seemed the model to follow. Democrats only wrote off the South after 2000, and early on Dukakis was actually competitive in border states.

When I look at the 1988 map, it's so bizarre to see WV Democratic but not Vermont, CT, MD, and DE.

Not really bizarre. Back then, West Virginia used to be a Democratic stronghold (in fact, WV was one of few states carried by Carter in 1980), while Vermont did not start voting Democratic until 1992.
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sg0508
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 05:58:50 PM »

Bentsen was liked, well-respected, and older, which I believe Dukakis needed.  Dukakis buried himself in that campaign by allowing Bush's team to define him as weak on crime amongst other things early and often. 
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CapoteMonster
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 11:54:41 PM »

Bentsen consistently had the highest favorable ratings of any of the four. A s

Texas was much less Republican back then.

true, but with his opponent from Texas I would think.it'd be out of play. Then again maybe he thought that Bentsen as a native against Bush the Yalie transplant might have helped put it in play.

Dukakis led in Texas the entire Summer until Bush took the national lead in September.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2015, 08:33:10 PM »

I wish Dukakis had won. No Clinton and maybe (though not likely) no Bush.

Dukakis would have been one term. He likely would have dithered when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The higher oil prices combined with the 1991 recession would have doomed the Dem party in 92. Not sure who the GOP nominee would have been. Dole or Kemp most likely.

Possibly, but not definitely.  Bush didn't lose because of the recession; he lost because of his perceived indifference to it and his preoccupation with foreign affairs. 

Clinton had given the nominating sppech for Dukakis that was embarrassingly long.  Gore had admitted to smoking pot in the past, and that was a bigger deal then than it would be now.  Personally, if I were Dukakis I would have chosen Bob Graham of Florida or Ernest Hollings of South Carolina, on the grounds that those guys may have expanded the map for Dukakis.  But the real reason for his loss was the Dukakis proved to be a terrible campaigner, getting himself tied up in knots over cultural issues that he could well have said one thing and ignored it once elected (e. g. Pledge of Allegiance, flag burning, etc.)  In the debate, he could have responded to the death penalty question of "What if your wife was raped?" question with an aggressive response calling out the questioner for dirty pool, and suggesting that in a governor of laws, there can't be one standard for all, and didn't this doofus asking the question realize that.  Instead, he got tied up in knots and looked lame.
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2015, 03:42:26 AM »

Many people still believed the South was a battleground region at the time. Plus, the Democratic tradition (1 Northerner, 1 Southerner. And viceversa).
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