What should we do as far as immigration?

[SWE]

Dazey is a boring troll not worth engaging with.

That being said, this is the correct position:

Abolish all restrictions on immigration and allow for the free movement of people.

Yes.

[SWE]

It's most important for all undocumented migrant workers to be afforded basic labor rights (minimum wage, 40hr work week, etc). On that basis, if not for purely humanitarian reasons, we should grant full blanket amnesty. Long term, I would want an open border policy with a shorter path to citizenship for all would be immigrants.

But here's the thing. Currently, as it stands, every immigrant who arrived here illegally has broken the law. Even if they've not broken a single law since, they still got here through illegal means. It's like if a homeless person breaks into your house, and then go and claim it's theirs because of squatters' rights. Sure, the 'nice' thing to do would be to give them the house...But it isn't really theirs. Maybe not the best metaphor but...

That is a bad metaphor because, in your example, the homeless man has deprived me of something I am entitled to. An undocumented immigrant selling his labor in the US illegally does not deprive me of anything and actually has a demonstrably positive effective on the cost of goods and services. Unfortunately, that "positive" effect comes at the cost of unconscionable exploitation of undocumented migrants' situation.

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I would argue that the arbitrary requirments we concocted for legal immigration are the slap to legal immigrants faces. Naturally, blanket amnest would be paired with a general deregulation of legal immigration.

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The sanctity of our laws, however arbitrary, and whatever patriotic warm and fuzzies some may get from their enforcement does not supplant our country's moral obligation to promote human dignity and fight exploitation.

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I don't mean this to sound demeaning or condescending, but a big part of life is making peace with the fact that there are people around you who are not like you—they may not speak your language, they may not care about the history of the United States, they may hate baseball and hot dogs...but they are workers and residents, like you and on those grounds you can find solidarity. To deprive migrant workers of basic human rights and the protections of our labor laws because they are from somewhere else is inhumane and emblematic of the worst sort of authoritarian regimes through history.

I'm guessing you're a Commie/Socialist/Anarchist, some sort of anti-American ideology?

Correct, I am a socialist. I am opposed to nationalism and xenophobia—whether that viewpoint is "anti-American" or not is irrelevant to me. Being patriotic at the expense of rationality and humanity is thoroughly fascist behavior.

It's called pragmatism. In case you haven't noticed, this is sudden death. Politics isn't touchy feely kiddie stuff. This is the real world - not the dreamland that Marx lived in. And sometimes the 'humane' option isn't the right one, the pragmatic one. I put the interests of America, and Americans first - not some pie-in-the-sky globalist dreams.

If migrant workers want to come here, and be afforded all the legal rights and protections that come with citizenship, they can do it the legal way. It's not that hard.

Socialists like yourself, ultimately though, see, your aim isn't really the peachy keen utopian visions you try to sell. You want a 'stateless' society that you control. You want to undermine this country from within and utterly change the culture, the society, the customs. You don't like America as we know it - in fact, from what I have seen, most Socialists abhor America. So for the last 40/50 years they've tried to destroy America from within by destroying faith in our institutions, belittling our Founders, and blaming every problem in world history on 'old white men.' Your hope is that minorities and white women will rally together to bring about utopian Socialism, where ultimately, it will just become another USSR. You hate America because America represents the cold hard truth - that Capitalism, if regulated, works, and Socialism does not.

I'm not a Fascist. I don't believe in any of the ideals put forth by it. Fascism and Socialism are two peas in a pod. I'm an American and damn proud of it.

a) There is nothing pragmatic about deporting 12,000,000 people or keeping them around as second class citizens. Pragmatism would be to make peace with the fact that they aren't leaving, that our price index is heavily influenced by their exploitation, and that legal immigration is arbitrarily burdensome and in desperate need of reform.

b) A "stateless" society under any singular entity's control is oxymoronic. The rest of that screed was simply moronic.

c) If opposing white entitlement, exploitation of labor, and imperialism is to hate America, then America is not worth loving.

A) The pragmatic idea would be to obey the law and get rid of them.

B) I put 'stateless' in quotation marks because a stateless society will never exist. It will always go to tyranny, you silly Commie.

C) Are you a self hating white person? 'White entitlement'. Guess what, homeboy? The white man isn't the devil. Get over it. 'Exploitation of labor' - You Commies live for exploitation of labor! Without it you wouldn't have anything to complain about. Want to talk about exploitation of labor, go look at the lovely Commie countries who have tried what you've been pushing. Imperialism is the way of the world. I'm sorry, silly Commie, but the world isn't a happy Marxist dreamland. Deal with it.

And get out of this country. Go to Cuba or Venezuela - your ideas are more at home there. And if you want to try to destroying America from within, do it the way the Founders did - don't be a coward hiding in the shadows indoctrinating children.

The founders tried destroying America from within?