United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership

[DavidB.]

This has to be an Atlas poster

[Cassius]

Well, this is exactly the kind of patronising bullsh**t floating around my fb feed that eventually made me swing back to voting leave after briefly flirting with voting to remain (because I highly doubt that the referendum will be so close as to hinge on one vote). I mean, the idea that our leaving the EU will mean we cease to be a 'big player' (whatever that means) in the world is rather specious to say the least, given that we will continue to have one of the largest armies and independent nuclear deterrents in the west, one of the largest financial services centres in the world, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and representation in the G8 and G20.

 As for being a 'big player' in Europe, I think our weak position in Europe has largely been exposed by this referendum campaign - Cameron's much vaunted renegotiation of our relationship with the EU turned out to be a damp squib, and even the 'concessions' extracted there are the absolute maximum that we'll be able to wring from the EU, according to Jean Claude Juncker at least. We've also signed away our control over our own trade policy as a member of the EU (a fact that, ironically, pushed me towards the Remain camp, as our existing trade deals through the EU will be rendered null and void by leaving) and control over various other areas of policy that should be in the hands of the British policy (although not to the extent that the Leave campaign has made out). We've always had what amounts to an adversarial relationship with the EU, remaining (correctly in my view) outside of key developments in that institution over the years (the Euro and Schengen to name but two), which has also reduced our influence in Europe, as we are correctly perceived as not being fully committed to the European project. This will not change in the aftermath of the referendum, one way or another.

Boiling important political discussion down to silly and patronising memes isn't really helpful, especially when those memes put across points that are basically blatant fabrications.

[Dutch Conservative]

Well, this is exactly the kind of patronising bullsh**t floating around my fb feed that eventually made me swing back to voting leave after briefly flirting with voting to remain (because I highly doubt that the referendum will be so close as to hinge on one vote). I mean, the idea that our leaving the EU will mean we cease to be a 'big player' (whatever that means) in the world is rather specious to say the least, given that we will continue to have one of the largest armies and independent nuclear deterrents in the west, one of the largest financial services centres in the world, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and representation in the G8 and G20.

 As for being a 'big player' in Europe, I think our weak position in Europe has largely been exposed by this referendum campaign - Cameron's much vaunted renegotiation of our relationship with the EU turned out to be a damp squib, and even the 'concessions' extracted there are the absolute maximum that we'll be able to wring from the EU, according to Jean Claude Juncker at least. We've also signed away our control over our own trade policy as a member of the EU (a fact that, ironically, pushed me towards the Remain camp, as our existing trade deals through the EU will be rendered null and void by leaving) and control over various other areas of policy that should be in the hands of the British policy (although not to the extent that the Leave campaign has made out). We've always had what amounts to an adversarial relationship with the EU, remaining (correctly in my view) outside of key developments in that institution over the years (the Euro and Schengen to name but two), which has also reduced our influence in Europe, as we are correctly perceived as not being fully committed to the European project. This will not change in the aftermath of the referendum, one way or another.

Boiling important political discussion down to silly and patronising memes isn't really helpful, especially when those memes put across points that are basically blatant fabrications.

Hear! Hear! And to quote Boris Johnson: you speak for hundreds of millions who currently have no voice.

The leave camp speaks for me, and so many dutch people who dont have the chance to vote on the EU.

May Britain show the path to freedom once more!

[libertpaulian]

Just voted Leave, I have to say, this was the most uncomfortable, distasteful and upsetting moments in my lifetime, never seen so many people at polling Station bitterly angry and frustrated before.

Shame on the Tories, they made this referendum all about fear tactics, personal attacks and cynical Immigration rhetoric, and they divided the country, regardless weather we remain or leave, England has change and to the worst. It's heartbreaking!

Will Cameron remain as PM if Bremain wins?  After all, he's banked nearly everything on that result, so it would be a victory for him.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Well, this is exactly the kind of patronising bullsh**t floating around my fb feed that eventually made me swing back to voting leave after briefly flirting with voting to remain (because I highly doubt that the referendum will be so close as to hinge on one vote). I mean, the idea that our leaving the EU will mean we cease to be a 'big player' (whatever that means) in the world is rather specious to say the least, given that we will continue to have one of the largest armies and independent nuclear deterrents in the west, one of the largest financial services centres in the world, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and representation in the G8 and G20.

 As for being a 'big player' in Europe, I think our weak position in Europe has largely been exposed by this referendum campaign - Cameron's much vaunted renegotiation of our relationship with the EU turned out to be a damp squib, and even the 'concessions' extracted there are the absolute maximum that we'll be able to wring from the EU, according to Jean Claude Juncker at least. We've also signed away our control over our own trade policy as a member of the EU (a fact that, ironically, pushed me towards the Remain camp, as our existing trade deals through the EU will be rendered null and void by leaving) and control over various other areas of policy that should be in the hands of the British policy (although not to the extent that the Leave campaign has made out). We've always had what amounts to an adversarial relationship with the EU, remaining (correctly in my view) outside of key developments in that institution over the years (the Euro and Schengen to name but two), which has also reduced our influence in Europe, as we are correctly perceived as not being fully committed to the European project. This will not change in the aftermath of the referendum, one way or another.

Boiling important political discussion down to silly and patronising memes isn't really helpful, especially when those memes put across points that are basically blatant fabrications.

You changed your vote because of Facebook memes?

[DavidB.]

Hear! Hear! And to quote Boris Johnson: you speak for hundreds of millions who currently have no voice.

The leave camp speaks for me, and so many dutch people who dont have the chance to vote on the EU.

May Britain show the path to freedom once more!

Yes.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

It strikes me if LEAVE wins and then they go the Minford Route of unilateral free trade then it we will truly have a natural experiment on our hands whether the market or states run the world.

Not an experiment one would want to leave through though.

[Platypus]

The arguments about the Commonwealth waiting with baited breath for the UK to come rule us again are dumb. Paraphrasing but it seems to be basically "Yes, if we leave the EU, we'll be leaving the biggest trading block in the world, but then we can refocus on the billions of people in the Commonwealth!"

Yeah. Nah. Get f'd. You made your bed when you embraced the EU over the Commonwealth, now you get to lie in it, or build a new one, but your old one is gone.

[Suburbia]

I don't want to say this, but I think Britain is going to leave tonight. I have a strong feeling.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Well, this is exactly the kind of patronising bullsh**t floating around my fb feed that eventually made me swing back to voting leave after briefly flirting with voting to remain (because I highly doubt that the referendum will be so close as to hinge on one vote). I mean, the idea that our leaving the EU will mean we cease to be a 'big player' (whatever that means) in the world is rather specious to say the least, given that we will continue to have one of the largest armies and independent nuclear deterrents in the west, one of the largest financial services centres in the world, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and representation in the G8 and G20.

 As for being a 'big player' in Europe, I think our weak position in Europe has largely been exposed by this referendum campaign - Cameron's much vaunted renegotiation of our relationship with the EU turned out to be a damp squib, and even the 'concessions' extracted there are the absolute maximum that we'll be able to wring from the EU, according to Jean Claude Juncker at least. We've also signed away our control over our own trade policy as a member of the EU (a fact that, ironically, pushed me towards the Remain camp, as our existing trade deals through the EU will be rendered null and void by leaving) and control over various other areas of policy that should be in the hands of the British policy (although not to the extent that the Leave campaign has made out). We've always had what amounts to an adversarial relationship with the EU, remaining (correctly in my view) outside of key developments in that institution over the years (the Euro and Schengen to name but two), which has also reduced our influence in Europe, as we are correctly perceived as not being fully committed to the European project. This will not change in the aftermath of the referendum, one way or another.

Boiling important political discussion down to silly and patronising memes isn't really helpful, especially when those memes put across points that are basically blatant fabrications.

You changed your vote because of Facebook memes?

It woz the memes wot won it

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The arguments about the Commonwealth waiting with baited breath for the UK to come rule us again are dumb. Paraphrasing but it seems to be basically "Yes, if we leave the EU, we'll be leaving the biggest trading block in the world, but then we can refocus on the billions of people in the Commonwealth!"

Yeah. Nah. Get f'd. You made your bed when you embraced the EU over the Commonwealth, now you get to lie in it, or build a new one, but your old one is gone.

I'm sure grassroots Brexiters will be thrilled at the prospect of open borders with Jamaica, Kenya and Pakistan though.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Everyone knows when they say 'the Commonwealth' they mean Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Powerhouses than those countries are.

[The Other Castro]

Final prediction:

Bremain - 54.5%
Brexit - 45.5%

[CatoMinor]

Sadly I think Remain will win by at lest six or seven points.

[cp]

Well, this is exactly the kind of patronising bullsh**t floating around my fb feed that eventually made me swing back to voting leave after briefly flirting with voting to remain (because I highly doubt that the referendum will be so close as to hinge on one vote). I mean, the idea that our leaving the EU will mean we cease to be a 'big player' (whatever that means) in the world is rather specious to say the least, given that we will continue to have one of the largest armies and independent nuclear deterrents in the west, one of the largest financial services centres in the world, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and representation in the G8 and G20.

 As for being a 'big player' in Europe, I think our weak position in Europe has largely been exposed by this referendum campaign - Cameron's much vaunted renegotiation of our relationship with the EU turned out to be a damp squib, and even the 'concessions' extracted there are the absolute maximum that we'll be able to wring from the EU, according to Jean Claude Juncker at least. We've also signed away our control over our own trade policy as a member of the EU (a fact that, ironically, pushed me towards the Remain camp, as our existing trade deals through the EU will be rendered null and void by leaving) and control over various other areas of policy that should be in the hands of the British policy (although not to the extent that the Leave campaign has made out). We've always had what amounts to an adversarial relationship with the EU, remaining (correctly in my view) outside of key developments in that institution over the years (the Euro and Schengen to name but two), which has also reduced our influence in Europe, as we are correctly perceived as not being fully committed to the European project. This will not change in the aftermath of the referendum, one way or another.

Boiling important political discussion down to silly and patronising memes isn't really helpful, especially when those memes put across points that are basically blatant fabrications.

You changed your vote because of Facebook memes?

It woz the memes wot won it

Simpsons meme-based voters are a critical demographic. Why else would there be so many competing examples? https://twitter.com/i/moments/745925353189814272

[IceAgeComing]

Just voted Leave, I have to say, this was the most uncomfortable, distasteful and upsetting moments in my lifetime, never seen so many people at polling Station bitterly angry and frustrated before.

Shame on the Tories, they made this referendum all about fear tactics, personal attacks and cynical Immigration rhetoric, and they divided the country, regardless weather we remain or leave, England has change and to the worst. It's heartbreaking!

please remember that its not just England voting

I really hope that we don't get a situation where England (and possibly Wales as well) votes to Leave and its only a big Remain vote in Scotland, NI and Gibraltar that keeps us in; even though I think that us being in the EU is a good thing I'd hate to see just what the impact of that would be...

[Vega]

I guess we're not going to have a separate results thread, right?

[IceAgeComing]

Trust me, this is worse than the independence referendum was.  At least that wasn't just a bunch of Tories trying to scare people and talk a lot about immigration...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Whisper it quietly but there's actually a chance that a vote to leave the EU would not ultimately result in Britain leaving (i.e. if the terms negotiated were not popular, etc). The political consequences - especially within the Conservative Party - would be something else of course, Jesus.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Trust me, this is worse than the independence referendum was.  At least that wasn't just a bunch of Tories trying to scare people and talk a lot about immigration...

The tone has been infinitely nastier, but the divisions created (if any have been created at all) less profound. Which, when you think about it, makes sense. Partly because (except for a loud minority) the issue is not really a fundamental one, but also because the nastiness is a clear product of existing tensions (esp. those bottled up within the Conservative Party for a decade). Surveys show that the referendum itself is not popular, which wasn't the case in Scotland by the end.

[Crumpets]

So apparently the weather's not all that good in Britain today, which might depress turnout. I suppose that's more likely to help the "leave" side?

[Hnv1]

Whisper it quietly but there's actually a chance that a vote to leave the EU would not ultimately result in Britain leaving (i.e. if the terms negotiated were not popular, etc). The political consequences - especially within the Conservative Party - would be something else of course, Jesus.

low turnout and extremely narrow margin could make the referendum decision less stark and give rise to reason for Parliament to make it owns mind on the issue.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

low turnout and extremely narrow margin could make the referendum decision less stark and give rise to reason for Parliament to make it owns mind on the issue.

In that event the Tory Party would still look like this for about a decade though:

[jaichind]

I think Yougov will release a 10pm renagament poll where they repoll the same people they polled earlier to see if their position has changed.

[CatoMinor]

Whisper it quietly but there's actually a chance that a vote to leave the EU would not ultimately result in Britain leaving (i.e. if the terms negotiated were not popular, etc). The political consequences - especially within the Conservative Party - would be something else of course, Jesus.

low turnout and extremely narrow margin could make the referendum decision less stark and give rise to reason for Parliament to make it owns mind on the issue.

If that happened I can't imagine that going over well with voters