Putin: collapse of Soviet Union "a catastrophe"
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  Putin: collapse of Soviet Union "a catastrophe"
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Author Topic: Putin: collapse of Soviet Union "a catastrophe"  (Read 2910 times)
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« on: April 26, 2005, 09:56:33 PM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4480745.stm

and yet the righties still love this guy. If Bush was truly competant he would've had the CIA whack that fascist piece of human trash by now. Please, someone coup the worthless sh**thead, just get him out.
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Jake
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 09:58:31 PM »

And yet you support the terrorist lover Chavez. Hypocrite
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Bono
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 01:48:38 AM »

From the Russia POV, it was. I'm sure when he means Soviet Union, he doesn't mean the regime, but the union.
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ragnar
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2005, 01:40:00 PM »

From the Russia POV, it was. I'm sure when he means Soviet Union, he doesn't mean the regime, but the union.

But for all the other peoples in the USSR POV, it was a lot more positive
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Bono
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2005, 03:15:07 PM »

From the Russia POV, it was. I'm sure when he means Soviet Union, he doesn't mean the regime, but the union.

But for all the other peoples in the USSR POV, it was a lot more positive

I'm not sure about the central asia countires, nor Ukraine, Moldova and Adzerbajan to be sure. But anyways, Putin is not president of any of those countries, he's president of Russia, and most people in Russia are still bitter from the breaking of the Soviet union.
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ragnar
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 03:23:09 PM »

From the Russia POV, it was. I'm sure when he means Soviet Union, he doesn't mean the regime, but the union.

But for all the other peoples in the USSR POV, it was a lot more positive

I'm not sure about the central asia countires, nor Ukraine, Moldova and Adzerbajan to be sure. But anyways, Putin is not president of any of those countries, he's president of Russia, and most people in Russia are still bitter from the breaking of the Soviet union.

And i´m sure there are many people in UK, who are bitter over the loss of 13 colonies, but they still don´t call the biggest catastrophe in the 300 years.

I honesty find it quate offensive, when Putin call the peaceful collapse of the USSR the biggest catastrophe in 20th century, a century where millions have died in senseless conflics and because of failed ideological experiments, particular when USSR was one of these.
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Banana Republic
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 03:56:12 PM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4480745.stm

and yet the righties still love this guy. If Bush was truly competant he would've had the CIA whack that fascist piece of human trash by now. Please, someone coup the worthless sh**thead, just get him out.

Which "righties''? Even Bush&Co dislike him.

And staging coups against democratically elected leaders isn't exactly a great thing to do. The man has an approval rating of something like 75%.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 09:03:23 PM »

If I were Russian, I'd probably be bitter about going from being a superpower, however sclerotic, to a shrunken poor country.

A country that held much of the world in terror, and presided over a military occupation of hundreds of millions of foreign peoples, now can't even control its own borders.

From Putin's standpoint, there's good reason to be unhappy that the Soviet Union collapsed.  But that doesn't mean the rest of the world should be unhappy.

BRTD is one of those people who would have thought the Soviet Union far superior to the US, had he been old enough during the time before the Soviet collapse, so I find it odd that he's now so exorcised over Putin's statement.
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Beet
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2005, 01:03:21 AM »
« Edited: April 28, 2005, 01:07:58 AM by thefactor »

Putin has said before that it was a tragedy. Yes from the Russian perspective, it was a disaster, unlike any before seen in the modern world for a power of its influence, short of war.



How is that not a catastrophe? Eight years after 1991, the GDP had shrunk by more than 35%. The situation is even worse in the Ukraine and many other new republics.

Eight years after the Great Depression in the United States, the GDP had recovered to its 1929 level, and that is widely recognized as the greatest US economic disaster.



Obviously something went very wrong in the transition, at least economically speaking.
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Brambila
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2005, 10:47:58 PM »

I havnt' seen any right-wingers like Putin.  I think he is a horrible leader, he handled the Chechnya hostages very poorly, and he is overall a very authoritarian leader, trying to control nearby nations like Belarus and the Ukraine. If Russia continues at this rate, they will end up recreating the Soviet Union. An alliance with China should definately be feared.
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BRTD
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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2005, 10:50:34 PM »

Jake loves Putin, and the Freepers went nuts over him after he basically endorsed Bush.
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Jake
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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 10:59:45 PM »

Jake loves Putin, and the Freepers went nuts over him after he basically endorsed Bush.

Yeah, I love him. About as much as you love Mr. Kim.
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2005, 11:00:37 PM »

In my world leaders survey, you rated him as "approve", along with Islam Karimov and the Turkmenbashi.
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Jake
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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2005, 11:02:53 PM »

Approve doesn't equate to love. Approve means he is somewhat helpful to securing US interests in the world.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2005, 07:35:36 AM »

Eh...what sources are we using to establish Soviet Union GDP? Tongue I wouldn't trust the Soviets on that account. Consider that the country was in constant starvation and that the population would be about twice as big today if they hadn't established the union in the first place.
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WMS
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2005, 11:40:30 AM »

Approve doesn't equate to love. Approve means he is somewhat helpful to securing US interests in the world.

Which doesn't explain the Turkmenbashi, who has been of no help whatsoever...
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BRTD
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2005, 08:36:48 PM »

Approve doesn't equate to love. Approve means he is somewhat helpful to securing US interests in the world.

Which doesn't explain the Turkmenbashi, who has been of no help whatsoever...

well, he does help Bush on DU whenever the discussion "how can things be worse than Bush?" comes up. Someone usually points to him.
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Cubby
Pim Fortuyn
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2005, 09:05:07 PM »

My professor told me that Putin and his cronies hate Bush, despite all the public talk of a warm friendship. He said that their meeting in Slovakia earlier this year was quite unpleasant. Maybe the feeling is mutual.

I hate Putin too but what is the alternative to him? There is no effective opposition. His comment is terrible and shows how all he cares about is re-establishing Russia's former position as a Superpower.

I don't mean to put words in BRTD's mouth but Dazzleman we liberals did not like Soviet communism, we may have liked how it seemed theory but it obviously didn't work in practice. I am as happy as you are that the Berlin Wall came down.
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Jake
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2005, 09:40:26 PM »

I never mentioned Turkmenbashi at all. Don't know who he is.
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BRTD
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2005, 10:25:53 PM »

I listed him by his actual name in that poll, which is something like Saparamurat Niyazov. Let me find that thread...
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2005, 10:27:32 PM »

George W. Bush-Approve
Jaques Chirac-Disapprove
Tony Blair-Approve
Jose Zapatero-Disapprove
Vladimir Putin-Approve
Hugo Chavez-Disapprove
Iyad Allawi-Approve
Ariel Sharon-Approve
Mahmoud Abbas-Approve
Osama bin Laden-Disapprove,WTF
Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva-Approve
Islam Karimonv-Approve
Saparmurat Niyazov-Approve
Fidel Castro-Disapprove
Robert Mugabe-Disapprove
Kim Jong-Il-Disapprove
Hu Jintao-Approve
bandit73-Disapprove

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dazzleman
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2005, 10:52:59 PM »

My professor told me that Putin and his cronies hate Bush, despite all the public talk of a warm friendship. He said that their meeting in Slovakia earlier this year was quite unpleasant. Maybe the feeling is mutual.

I hate Putin too but what is the alternative to him? There is no effective opposition. His comment is terrible and shows how all he cares about is re-establishing Russia's former position as a Superpower.

I don't mean to put words in BRTD's mouth but Dazzleman we liberals did not like Soviet communism, we may have liked how it seemed theory but it obviously didn't work in practice. I am as happy as you are that the Berlin Wall came down.

Yes, but you're only happy in retrospect.  You would have cringed when President Reagan said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."  Liberal happiness at the collapse of the Soviet Union only developed subsequently.  Prior to the Soviet collapse, liberals were more likely to defend Soviet behavior, and oppose the policies that led to its collapse.  Many liberals only discovered that the system didn't work, as you say, until after its collapse.  Hindsight is always 20/20.
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2005, 12:21:44 PM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4480745.stm

and yet the righties still love this guy. If Bush was truly competant he would've had the CIA whack that fascist piece of human trash by now. Please, someone coup the worthless sh**thead, just get him out.

Well said! Short and sweet - but to the point!

Dave
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Bono
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« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2005, 12:42:12 PM »

My professor told me that Putin and his cronies hate Bush, despite all the public talk of a warm friendship. He said that their meeting in Slovakia earlier this year was quite unpleasant. Maybe the feeling is mutual.

I hate Putin too but what is the alternative to him? There is no effective opposition. His comment is terrible and shows how all he cares about is re-establishing Russia's former position as a Superpower.

I don't mean to put words in BRTD's mouth but Dazzleman we liberals did not like Soviet communism, we may have liked how it seemed theory but it obviously didn't work in practice. I am as happy as you are that the Berlin Wall came down.

So you think he should be a puppet who should submit to teh whims of the united statyes, like Tony Blair?
why shouldn't he pursue Rusia's interests? Isn't that what they elected him for?
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Cubby
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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2005, 07:42:24 PM »

Of course I don't want him to be a puppet. But he is becoming a competitor to the United States, so I guess our relations will suffer either way.

I don't like him because he has technically outlawed any independent press and especially because of what he did to Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The man obviously doesn't believe in Democracy. Appointing the state governors?! This is 2005 not 1905. Putin is too authoritarian to tolerate.



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