What to do about Chavez?
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  What to do about Chavez?
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Author Topic: What to do about Chavez?  (Read 4783 times)
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StatesRights
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« on: April 26, 2005, 07:18:51 AM »

It seems he has been jailing some American citizens and the military exchange program is now on the rocks. Yep, Venezuela appears to be headed towards a Chavez communist regime. Certainly a threat to our oil. Smiley What should the US do?
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 10:47:45 AM »

It seems he has been jailing some American citizens and the military exchange program is now on the rocks. Yep, Venezuela appears to be headed towards a Chavez communist regime. Certainly a threat to our oil. Smiley What should the US do?
I believe Venezuela's oil production is almost entirely offshore.  Securing those oil fields would be vastly easier than securing Iraq's oil production.  It could probably be done very cheaply and without a single combat death (on our side, at least).  Chavez wouldn't last too long without his oil, especially if he is stripped of it in a way that displays his impotence.
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BRTD
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 10:49:44 AM »

The Americans he's been jailing were spying on his military facilities, and he has agreed to release them back to the US.

Just leave him alone.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 10:59:12 AM »

The Americans he's been jailing were spying on his military facilities, and he has agreed to release them back to the US.

Just leave him alone.

Yes, the US spying technology is so poor that they have to have their own people stand outside facilities with cameras clicking away. Hilarious. The US doesnt need humans on the ground with cameras to get photos. They do the majority of their survelliance from 30 miles up w/a sattelite that can read a license plate.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 12:17:06 PM »

It seems he has been jailing some American citizens and the military exchange program is now on the rocks. Yep, Venezuela appears to be headed towards a Chavez communist regime. Certainly a threat to our oil. Smiley What should the US do?

OUR oil?

Whatever one thinks of Chavez, we don’t have an exclusive claim on Venezuelan oil.  Such attitudes only contribute to the ability of our foreign opponents to rally opinion against us.
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WMS
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 12:51:02 PM »

Well, given that he's hell-bent on confronting the U.S. - he's looking for any excuse to embargo oil to the U.S. and send oil and gasoline prices even higher - it shouldn't be surprising that this happened:

[from Stratfor, although it's actually about a NYT article, emphasis is mine]
"1219 GMT - The United States, which has concluded that normal relations with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez no longer are possible, is considering a long-term strategy to oppose Chavez, The New York Times reported April 26. The article cited U.S. officials as saying that a multiagency task force has been working on developing a more confrontational approach toward Venezuela that could include increasing Washington's support for anti-Chavez groups in Venezuela and pushing neighboring countries to isolate Caracas."

And as you may guess by now, I support this, if for no other reason than having a rabidly anti-American proto-tyrant in control of substantial oil reserves is not a good thing for the United States. Besides, he started this fight with his typical Third World leftist idiotic knee-jerk anti-Americanism - and if he's screwing with U.S. citizens, he should take a look at what happened to Manuel Noriega. Angry

Welcome to realpolitique, Hugo Chavez. You only think the U.S. has been hostile to you so far...time to find out what it's really like. Cool

P.S. With all his oil money, do you think he's reduced the poverty rate? NO! He's spent it on weapons instead. If a rightist regime did this, the internationalista left would bitch about it forever. But there's an awful lot of silence coming from them...
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Storebought
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2005, 12:55:36 PM »

It seems he has been jailing some American citizens and the military exchange program is now on the rocks. Yep, Venezuela appears to be headed towards a Chavez communist regime. Certainly a threat to our oil. Smiley What should the US do?

OUR oil?



Actually, yes, it is our oil. Oil belongs to the company that was first to tap it, not to the person or entity that lies on the dirt above the oil field.

If American oil companies were the first to extract the oil in Venezuela, then it is ours. Pretty clear cut, actually.
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2005, 11:29:57 PM »

Well they're owned by corporations, not a government.
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Lunar
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 12:00:42 AM »

I've always been in favor of the CIA giving him a heart attack.  I'm unsure about the line of succession, I'm assuming it's vague and the country would become more democratic. 
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Jake
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2005, 12:06:56 AM »

Nothing wrong with an air raid to destroy anything that could possibly attack the oil rigs followed by an occupation of them, quickly followed by a special forces strike to kill Chavez and a right wing coup to replace him.
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Lunar
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2005, 12:10:40 AM »

Nothing wrong with an air raid to destroy anything that could possibly attack the oil rigs followed by an occupation of them, quickly followed by a special forces strike to kill Chavez and a right wing coup to replace him.

I think treating Venzuela as an American playground would be a poor foreign policy move.  It'd probably force the Venzuelans to the left politically, perhaps sending the country back to the 2004-05 days of leftist demagoguery (asuming a democracy is left intact).
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Erc
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2005, 12:58:31 AM »

Get rid of Chavez before he becomes Castro v.2.0.

Because if we don't, the Colombians will...and that'll be messy.

And I don't give a **** about the oil.
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ragnar
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2005, 01:26:20 PM »

I've always been in favor of the CIA giving him a heart attack.  I'm unsure about the line of succession, I'm assuming it's vague and the country would become more democratic. 

While I tend to find that "distasteful", I woundn´t mind if it happen for Chavez
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ragnar
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2005, 01:29:42 PM »

Nothing wrong with an air raid to destroy anything that could possibly attack the oil rigs followed by an occupation of them, quickly followed by a special forces strike to kill Chavez and a right wing coup to replace him.

I think treating Venzuela as an American playground would be a poor foreign policy move.  It'd probably force the Venzuelans to the left politically, perhaps sending the country back to the 2004-05 days of leftist demagoguery (asuming a democracy is left intact).

Their democracy wouldn´t survive.
Political for the USA, it would be one of the biggest disasters in the last hundred years on the international scene.
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Lunar
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2005, 04:45:02 PM »

I've always been in favor of the CIA giving him a heart attack.  I'm unsure about the line of succession, I'm assuming it's vague and the country would become more democratic. 

While I tend to find that "distasteful", I woundn´t mind if it happen for Chavez

Sure.  Assassinations tend to be ethically questionable and publicly disastrous if discovered.  I think we're in the same boat here regarding the exceptions (done for altruistic reasons, everybody wins except the dead man, etc.).
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2005, 05:07:09 PM »



OUR oil?

Whatever one thinks of Chavez, we don’t have an exclusive claim on Venezuelan oil.  Such attitudes only contribute to the ability of our foreign opponents to rally opinion against us.

Chavez stole American oil! Bush demands recount!
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Shira
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2005, 05:10:20 PM »


Remember, as oppose to Musharaf  in Pakistan, for example, Chavz  came to power in a democratic  election process
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Lunar
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2005, 05:26:24 PM »


Remember, as oppose to Musharaf  in Pakistan, for example, Chavz  came to power in a democratic  election process

Surely we can look at the depth of the situations though.
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Rob
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2005, 05:56:58 PM »

Assassinate the . Once his term runs out, he'll declare himself dictator for life anyway.
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BRTD
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2005, 08:46:20 PM »


Remember, as oppose to Musharaf  in Pakistan, for example, Chavz  came to power in a democratic  election process

Surely we can look at the depth of the situations though.

OK. Chavez wins a fair election. Musharaf overthorws a democratically elected government. Why is the latter better than the former?
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Erc
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2005, 08:48:41 PM »


Remember, as oppose to Musharaf  in Pakistan, for example, Chavz  came to power in a democratic  election process

Surely we can look at the depth of the situations though.

OK. Chavez wins a fair election. Musharaf overthorws a democratically elected government. Why is the latter better than the former?

Chavez is as democratically elected as Charles Taylor was.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2005, 11:46:52 PM »


Remember, as oppose to Musharaf  in Pakistan, for example, Chavz  came to power in a democratic  election process

So in other words. Shira supports communist regimes.
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bgwah
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« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2005, 12:31:30 AM »

America MUST develop alternate-fuels NOW. It's already bad enough pouring money in to the vicious Muslim countries. Now communists too?

TAKE THE BUS or your supporting Islamic dictatorships and communism.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2005, 12:47:27 AM »

America MUST develop alternate-fuels NOW. It's already bad enough pouring money in to the vicious Muslim countries. Now communists too?

TAKE THE BUS or your supporting Islamic dictatorships and communism.

Citgo is run by a Venezeulan company. For the record, thought I'd mention it. Smiley
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dazzleman
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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2005, 08:28:54 AM »

It seems he has been jailing some American citizens and the military exchange program is now on the rocks. Yep, Venezuela appears to be headed towards a Chavez communist regime. Certainly a threat to our oil. Smiley What should the US do?

OUR oil?


Whatever one thinks of Chavez, we don’t have an exclusive claim on Venezuelan oil.  Such attitudes only contribute to the ability of our foreign opponents to rally opinion against us.

I agree.  It's not our oil, and we shouldn't act as though it is.  But our policy should be geared to facilitating a steady supply of oil, as well as defeating any attempt to increase the market price of oil through cartel activity, as happened in the 1970s with OPEC.

Still, Chavez is a threat to overall Latin American stability.  Latin America veers between rightist dictatorships and leftist dictatorships that are not really so different, except in their foreign policy orientation.  They promise a free lunch, but bring economic ruin while enriching themselves.  The politics of the region are highly distorted because of this history.

We have some anti-American liberals who favor leftist governments simply because they are hostile to the US, but I don't think this is the right path.
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