University of Calif. Irvine students vote to remove US flag from campus lobby

[Badger]

Are they trying to fulfill every negative stereotype conservatives have about liberals? 

They aren't liberals, there progressives/socialists/pseudo-New Left.

Yeah, the thinking here is just too "precious" more than anything.

I sincerely suspect most of the half dozen who voted to do so (and probably the 2 who abstained) will consider this an embarrassment of youthful hubris by the time they're 30.

[DemPGH]

I wouldn't have made a big deal about it, but I would have supported the students. I'm not a fan of lapel pins of the flag either. I don't get why it's necessary, it's almost like it's demonstrating your loyalty, or patriotism, and I'm not a big fan of that kind of thing. I'm not a big fan of the national anthem at sporting events either. Like, why is it necessary? I mean, time and place.

[Indy Texas]

I wouldn't have made a big deal about it, but I would have supported the students. I'm not a fan of lapel pins of the flag either. I don't get why it's necessary, it's almost like it's demonstrating your loyalty, or patriotism, and I'm not a big fan of that kind of thing. I'm not a big fan of the national anthem at sporting events either. Like, why is it necessary? I mean, time and place.

I've never seen politicians in any other country wear those. You also don't see them attempt to be wearing the national colors at all times (typical male US politician always trying to wear a suit, shirt and/or tie that contain red, white and blue in some form).

The only foreign politician I can think of who had such an American-level devotion to wearing patriotic tchotchkes at all times was Yasser Arafat. I'm not sure what that says about us or about him.

[ElectionsGuy]

I'm going to use the opposite argument. Why would people care about a flag in their lobby? Is there something wrong with the flag that they would want to get rid of it?

[The Free North]

Were all really impressed by how open minded and accepting you guys are, now get back to working on your native american lit major so you can be unemployed after you graduate 5 years from now.

[Mr. Illini]

This is dumb. The flag simply displays what country you are in and is not unreasonable to display, most especially at a state university.

[The Free North]

I would also point out that:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Is a justification by which we should remove and take down every single object in our society because it may have conflicted with someone, one time, somewhere.

[IceSpear]

This is stupid of course, but I find the right wing outrage much more disturbing. ARREST THESE COMMUNISTS AND CUT THEIR HEADS OFF WITH A CHAINSAW - summary of the comments on the article.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Pro tip: if you spend more than five minutes arguing about taking down or reerecting a flag you're no better than Northern Ireland.

[Cubby]

Good for them.

I'm glad the post 9/11 flag worship has cooled off. I doubt anyone would have been brave enough to do this ten years ago.

At some point I bet Republicans will try to get Reagan's face on the flag so they can worship two false gods at the same time.

Frodo I see you're still Southern as ever.

[Thunderbird is the word]

Good for them.

I'm glad the post 9/11 flag worship has cooled off. I doubt anyone would have been brave enough to do this ten years ago.

At some point I bet Republicans will try to get Reagan's face on the flag so they can worship two false gods at the same time.

Frodo I see you're still Southern as ever.

This

[The Free North]

Good for them.

I'm glad the post 9/11 flag worship has cooled off. I doubt anyone would have been brave enough to do this ten years ago.

At some point I bet Republicans will try to get Reagan's face on the flag so they can worship two false gods at the same time.

Frodo I see you're still Southern as ever.

This is not really about flag worship, its just an illogical thing and a complete overreaction to "OMG USA IMPERIALISM" hysteria.

I'm all for reducing US military influence abroad, but targeting a flag in a hall in a STATE school that is educating you seems a bit counterproductive and hypocritical to me.

Obviously they have a right to do it, but what does it really accomplish?

[Cubby]

This is not really about flag worship, its just an illogical thing and a complete overreaction to "OMG USA IMPERIALISM" hysteria.

I'm all for reducing US military influence abroad, but targeting a flag in a hall in a STATE school that is educating you seems a bit counterproductive and hypocritical to me.

Obviously they have a right to do it, but what does it really accomplish?

I agree it doesn't accomplish much. I was just glad they were allowed to do it in the first place.

[windjammer]

Who cares?

[Associate Justice PiT]

What is this "Associated Students" group and what lobby are they so concerned about? I'm guessing their not a fan of the California flag either?

     If you asked them, they'd probably say no and give some spiel about American imperialism. Unfortunately, education is a far cry from intelligence.

You know as well as I do that the arguments tend to be a little more sophisticated than that.

     Well the spiel might be quite sophisticated. Doesn't necessarily make it sensible or relevant.

[© tweed]

It seems to me that as a state institution the power to make decisions about what flags to display rests with the state. The students can petition the state or its agents the trustees of the university, but if the state doesn't want to delegate that decision they can choose to ignore the student's request and require a flag on display.

unless the state delegates such functions to the students, which is might.

anyway, in most of the US students are effectively* forced to "pledge allegiance to the flag" for 13 years, ~170 times per year.  it is understandable that students with awareness of the mass evil that is done in the name of that flag to take an action such as this once they get to make decisions on their own.



*though the Supreme Court held forced pledge of allegiance to be unconstitutional in 1943, it takes little imagination to see how this might not be uniformly enforced, particularly among young children who as  "asked" to do it before they have the slightest idea what it all means.

[© tweed]

I would also point out that:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Is a justification by which we should remove and take down every single object in our society because it may have conflicted with someone, one time, somewhere.

no.  the flag is THE symbol of state power.  as was argued by the dissent in Texas v Johnson: that its symbolism is so strong that it is actually 'above' the Constitution itself.

[© tweed]

The American flag, then, throughout more than 200 years of our history, has come to be the visible symbol embodying our Nation. It does not represent the views of any particular political party, and it does not represent any particular political philosophy. The flag is not simply another "idea" or "point of view" competing for recognition in the marketplace of ideas. Millions and millions of Americans regard it with an almost mystical reverence regardless of what sort of social, political, or philosophical beliefs they may have. I cannot agree that the First Amendment invalidates the Act of Congress, and the laws of 48 of the 50 States, which make criminal the public burning of the flag.  -William Rehnquist, 1989.

[Flake]

lol @ these kids

[7,052,770]

So, according to the article, they removed ALL national flags from the lobby. It's not like they only removed the US flag.

It's still a bunch of college kids trying too hard to seem liberal, but it's not nearly as silly as the thread title implies.

[Mechaman]

So, according to the article, they removed ALL national flags from the lobby. It's not like they only removed the US flag.

It's still a bunch of college kids trying too hard to seem liberal, but it's not nearly as silly as the thread title implies.

Yeah basically this.  If you need examples of this phenomena in action, just read the posts in this thread.

Seriously, we got starving children, elderly disabled people with cancer being denied healthcare, single mothers getting fired from their secretorial jobs and being forced into low paid wage work, gringo police officers throwing black and Mexican fathers into prison for having a few ounces of dope on them. . . . . . . . . . .. and you guys want to talk about this?

Seriously, what the hell?

[Lambsbread]

This is dumb. The flag simply displays what country you are in and is not unreasonable to display, most especially at a state university.

What idiot doesn't know what f--king country they're in?

I wonder what happens in 6 months when the Cuban students group or La Raza or the Chinese Students society want to display their flag in the lobby ... the SJWs heads will explode. Allow icky evil racist imperialist Amerikkka flag of shame and corporations and patriarchy ... or prevent poor exploited not-white and thus wonderful immigrants from expressing their cultural heritage of peace in a stick-it-to-the-man protest. What would Che do? PRIVILEGE!!!

[Simfan34]

The Council above them has vetoed the bill.

[Sol]

This is dumb. The flag simply displays what country you are in and is not unreasonable to display, most especially at a state university.

What idiot doesn't know what f--king country they're in?

I wonder what happens in 6 months when the Cuban students group or La Raza or the Chinese Students society want to display their flag in the lobby ... the SJWs heads will explode. Allow icky evil racist imperialist Amerikkka flag of shame and corporations and patriarchy ... or prevent poor exploited not-white and thus wonderful immigrants from expressing their cultural heritage of peace in a stick-it-to-the-man protest. What would Che do? PRIVILEGE!!!

Maybe not the best choice of image there...

[Foucaulf]

Not going to police here which cultural traits people must find valuable, but there's a tension with decisions like these. On one hand, there may have been reasons posed in the debate on this which are sufficient for onlookers like us to change our minds. On the other hand college kids are usually bad writers, and what gets quoted are not those sufficient reasons but their bad writing. The equilibrium is one where neither side feels as if they share the same beliefs as the other.

With that said, I'm an international poster who don't get the American obsession with flags. Hopefully others echo my feelings.