Opinion of the pro-Clinton left

[IceSpear]

Setting themselves up for an even more GOP senate and congress!

This doesn't even make sense. Do you think it makes more sense for Democrats to throw the presidential election and potentially risk a right-wing majority on SCOTUS, repeal of most legislation passed during the Obama presidency, forfeiting all executive power, etc. for the sake of MAYBE winning Congress in 2018?

[bedstuy]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

You clearly aren't educated on the facts and you populate your addled brain with these cherry-picked versions of political events with words like "neoliberal" and "imperialist" sprinkled in.  It's pathetic.  You don't even know what you're talking about.

[IceSpear]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

For one thing, the president isn't a dictator. Congress matters. Secondly, incremental change is not worse than nothing. Thirdly, many of these things you listed are mischaracterizations.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I don't know whether I could call myself pro-Clinton. I mean I'd vote for her, because much of the GOP field are wildly irrational on international matters that could potentially turn the U.S. into a laughing stock in crucial matters that need leadership like climate change mitigation, international arms control and combating global inequality. I'm under no delusions that she is a lovely person, but if we all demanded Dudley Do Right for POTUS we'd end up with inane Tim-nice-but-dims.

[ElectionsGuy]

establishment left = HP politically

[SWE]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

For one thing, the president isn't a dictator. Congress matters.

TIL Congress forced Obama to invade Libya

[IceSpear]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

For one thing, the president isn't a dictator. Congress matters.

TIL Congress forced Obama to invade Libya

Who said that statement applied to every single thing he listed?

[SWE]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

For one thing, the president isn't a dictator. Congress matters.

TIL Congress forced Obama to invade Libya

Who said that statement applied to every single thing he listed?

Which ones did it apply to?

[bedstuy]

Who said that statement applied to every single thing he listed?

Which ones did it apply to?

Just a general reality check:

Such as gutting welfare,

The Welfare Reform was bad policy, I agree.  But, it didn't gut welfare and it was the culmination of a political movement that had demonized welfare for a long time.  You have to blame the entire left for losing that political battle.

removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry,

There were no restrictions on the Financial industry at all Post-Clinton?  No.  And, the Clinton era deregulation didn't actually cause or contribute significantly to the financial crisis according to most experts so, there you go.

signing destructive trade agreements,

NAFTA was good for every country in North America and has been an overall success.  I don't know how you could claim it was destructive. 

killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan,

Imperialist?  Really?

smashing union health care plans,

No.  Obamacare has a tax on so-called Cadillac Health plans which hurt most average Americans by raising healthcare costs.  And, the vast majority of people who have Cadillac plans are non-union.  These are high cost plans which would be out of the price range of middle class people.  High cost plans raise costs because they create incentives to over-utilize the healthcare system.  To characterize the excise tax on premium/expensive health insurance plans as "smashing union health care plans" is just ridiculous.

fostering the growth of media conglomerates,

?

forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system,

The ACA was a compromise.  But, it provides affordable health insurance to every American citizen.  I understand the desire for something like Medicare for all, but it wasn't politically feasible.  The ACA barely, barely passed, remember?  It was an incredible undertaking.  And, outside of Marxist teenager fantasyland, people need insurance.  People get sick and they need to go to a doctor.  Maybe you've never experienced being under-insured or uninsured, but it was terrible.  The status quo was horrible and Obamacare was a compromise.  And, let's get real, you're a Marxist, not a libertarian, so why are you upset about the individual mandate?

backing neoliberal education privatization schemes?

Give me an example of this.

[Maxwell]

Setting themselves up for an even more GOP senate and congress!

This doesn't even make sense. Do you think it makes more sense for Democrats to throw the presidential election and potentially risk a right-wing majority on SCOTUS, repeal of most legislation passed during the Obama presidency, forfeiting all executive power, etc. for the sake of MAYBE winning Congress in 2018?

How much is hillary going to pass when the GOP supermajority going to come around?

[IceSpear]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

For one thing, the president isn't a dictator. Congress matters.

TIL Congress forced Obama to invade Libya

Who said that statement applied to every single thing he listed?

Which ones did it apply to?

The first two. People tend to gloss over the fact that a heavily Republican right wing Congress passed these policies with veto proof majorities. I'd address the rest of it, but bedstuy has already beaten me to it.

[IceSpear]

Setting themselves up for an even more GOP senate and congress!

This doesn't even make sense. Do you think it makes more sense for Democrats to throw the presidential election and potentially risk a right-wing majority on SCOTUS, repeal of most legislation passed during the Obama presidency, forfeiting all executive power, etc. for the sake of MAYBE winning Congress in 2018?

How much is hillary going to pass when the GOP supermajority going to come around?

First of all, I highly doubt there will be a GOP "supermajority" (either 66% or 60%) in the House or Senate even after 2018. Secondly, even if there was, it still makes no sense whatsoever to throw a presidential election and hand the GOP a trifecta on a silver platter for a MINIMUM of 2 years. Dems gain nothing in this scenario. There's only two possible Senate pickups for Dems in 2018, even in a massive wave. Assuming they win the presidential election, the GOP probably has 52 seats or more after 2016. So taking back the Senate is likely a nonstarter. The House is gerrymandered to hell, but in a wave Dems could take it back. But it's no sure thing that 2018 would be a Democratic wave even if the incumbent Republican is unpopular, particularly because of turnout issues which plague Democrats in midterms. So the stategery here is apparently to throw a presidential election, hand the GOP all the executive power, let them possibly replace Ginsburg and some of their own justices on the SCOTUS, let them repeal countless pieces of legislation passed since 2009, all for...an outside shot at taking the House? Uh, no thanks on that deal.

[Intell]

Huge FF, the best kind of FF!

[free my dawg]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

By voting for a party whose mainstream has not been remotely leftist in 40 years?

The Democratic party has done a heck of a lot more for the causes of economic and social equality and justice in the past 40 years than Kshama Sawant and co. could ever hope to achieve.

Such as gutting welfare, removing the few restrictions on the parasitic financial industry, signing destructive trade agreements, killing both Americans and foreign civilians in imperialist interventions from Libya to Serbia to Iraq to Sudan, smashing union health care plans, fostering the growth of media conglomerates, forcing people into a parasitic private insurance system, and backing neoliberal education privatization schemes? Or is that all just a long con for the magical left-liberal utopia that Hillary will bring after the 2016 elections?

For one thing, the president isn't a dictator. Congress matters. Secondly, incremental change is not worse than nothing. Thirdly, many of these things you listed are mischaracterizations.

But Serb kids died

[H. Ross Peron]

Worst than Hitler and Cuomo (normal, sane, moral etc.)

But in all seriousness...

FFs (normal).

And this is a really, really bad knockoff of the Putin thread. Supporting a centrist is the same thing as supporting the leader of a right wing oligarchy! lol

Simply put Hillary will not be as right-wing as her husband was because the Overton Window's shift to the left in the past decade and a half.

[Sol]

Serbia

[© tweed]

FF, as they understand how left-wing goals are actually accomplished in this country.

"left-wing goals" get accomplished by massive popular organizing that in turn puts pressure on the state.  see the CIO, civil rights movement.  a Democrat will be more sensitive to such pressure than a Republican, so in that sense it's worth voting for Democrats from a left perspective, but nothing more than that. you'd have to be a total tool to volunteer for or donate money to Hillary.

[Libertarian Socialist Dem]

Deluded hashtag Democrats cheerily joining a disturbing coalition of gay men, beer-swilling crackers and dowdy soccer moms. At least the latter two groups know that Clinton is temperamentally and philosophically a Republican.

If Hunter S Thompson were still alive today I could see him writing this passage.