The Wrestling Thread

[LeBron]

I'm really happy to see Kidd and Cesaro held onto the Tag Titles!

Bryan winning the IC Title....not so much (though it seemed obvious that Bryan was going to win this one), plus the IC Title naturally does change hands a lot at WrestleMania. I was rooting for Ziggler in this one, and he came so close!

The Authority so far is 2-1 tonight. Big Show won the Andre Battle Royal (and it only seems fitting he does as someone who most resembles a modern-day Andre the Giant) and The Game beat the Icon, while Orton beat Rollins after a very impressive reverse curb stomp into a flying RKO.

Oh and speaking of the Authority, Triple H so far takes the cake for best entrance:



Still crossing my fingers Rollins will cash in tonight.....

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

They're stalling so hard for the sun to set so the Taker-Wyatt match can work in the dark.

[LeBron]

Best possible ending! They listened to the WWE Universe for once and made sure Roman Reigns didn't win the title.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'm happy with the outcomes with the exception of one. Sting should've beat Trips. Flair should've been out there with Sting to make things even since they had DX vs NWO (HBK superkicked the wrong guy). I saw Rollins cashing in months ago.

[Eraserhead]

I'm glad Rollins is the champ. Lesnar retaining and then not showing to defend the title again until Summerslam would have been pretty ridiculous and hardly anybody wanted Reigns to win at this point. Don't you have to pin the champ when you cash in though? Has someone cashing in ever turned a singles match into a triple-threat match before or are they just making up new rules on the fly again?

I'm kind of shocked that Triple H put himself over Sting. Kind of disgusted too. It was a very entertaing match though.

Some more thoughts later perhaps.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I'm glad Rollins is the champ. Lesnar retaining and then not showing to defend the title again until Summerslam would have been pretty ridiculous and hardly anybody wanted Reigns to win at this point. Don't you have to pin the champ when you cash in though? Has someone cashing in ever turned a singles match into a triple-threat match before or are they just making up new rules on the fly again?

This was the first time someone cashed in during a match, but triple-threat rules mean anyone can be pinned for the match to be won.

Had a lot of fun last night as WrestleMania, amazing to see Taker back. I felt like everything was a bit slow (like really slow), but perhaps that was simply because watching it in-person gives a different feeling.

I'll expound more on my thoughts later but I'll say one thing -- Reigns was squashed and squashed hard. He might've kicked out of three F-5s, but my god, it was bad. We were starting to feel sorry for him. Crowd was ridiculously against Reigns though, they really drove a knife into him.

[Eraserhead]

I'm glad Rollins is the champ. Lesnar retaining and then not showing to defend the title again until Summerslam would have been pretty ridiculous and hardly anybody wanted Reigns to win at this point. Don't you have to pin the champ when you cash in though? Has someone cashing in ever turned a singles match into a triple-threat match before or are they just making up new rules on the fly again?

This was the first time someone cashed in during a match, but triple-threat rules mean anyone can be pinned for the match to be won.

Had a lot of fun last night as WrestleMania, amazing to see Taker back. I felt like everything was a bit slow (like really slow), but perhaps that was simply because watching it in-person gives a different feeling.

I'll expound more on my thoughts later but I'll say one thing -- Reigns was squashed and squashed hard. He might've kicked out of three F-5s, but my god, it was bad. We were starting to feel sorry for him. Crowd was ridiculously against Reigns though, they really drove a knife into him.

Yeah, I know the rules of a triple threat match. I just figured the cash in would have rendered the original singles match a no-contest or something.

It was cool to see Undertaker again and he definitely looked better than he did last year at least but Bray should have won that match, especially with Sting losing to HHH earlier in the day. So what's even the point of doing Sting and Taker at Wrestlemania next year when you just had Sting fall at Wrestlemania to a guy that the Undertaker has beaten several times at Wrestlemania already. Why would someone (in Kayfabe terms or otherwise) think that Sting would have a chance? Also, Taker and Bray's entrances looked pretty silly in the daylight.

The Lesnar-Reigns encounter was a lot better than I (and I think most people) expected it to be. Line of the night: SUPLEX CITY BITCH!

[LeBron]

Overall, I would give WrestleMania a 9/10. The entrances were brilliant, it was action-packed and we saw some big names return. Better than the past few WM's imo.

Also, it's worth a mention that the only champions to be booted from the main card were the only ones who were able to retain their titles at WrestleMania. #CesaroandKidd #FACT

[LeBron]

So what do you guys think of the Sheamus return? I agree with the fans when they started chanting "You look stupid" at him last week (for his new look), though I'm really happy to see WWE brought him back as a heel. I don't know what it is, but Irish wrestlers really work better as heels - it worked well originally for Sheamus and like Finlay sort of was, Sheamus is a vicious brawler and is "tough" on the mic so it does work best that he is back a heel.

I just wish in the process of making his "statement" on Raw last week that he wasn't burying Ziggles (who I feel is being mistreated as of late). Nonetheless, Sheamus does appear to be the next in line for an IC Title match.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Sin Cara and now Kalisto (man does he have talent) are on the main roster finally. With Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, Justin Gabriel and others gone now, the WWE does need some more lightweight high-flyers.

[Dr. Cynic]

So what do you guys think of the Sheamus return? I agree with the fans when they started chanting "You look stupid" at him last week (for his new look), though I'm really happy to see WWE brought him back as a heel. I don't know what it is, but Irish wrestlers really work better as heels - it worked well originally for Sheamus and like Finlay sort of was, Sheamus is a vicious brawler and is "tough" on the mic so it does work best that he is back a heel.

I just wish in the process of making his "statement" on Raw last week that he wasn't burying Ziggles (who I feel is being mistreated as of late). Nonetheless, Sheamus does appear to be the next in line for an IC Title match.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Sin Cara and now Kalisto (man does he have talent) are on the main roster finally. With Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, Justin Gabriel and others gone now, the WWE does need some more lightweight high-flyers.

He does look stupid. But does anyone remember what he looked like before? He looked like Beaker! Sheamus really had to be a heel on his return though. The only strong heel the company has is Seth Rollins. Compare to the babyface side: Bryan, Reigns, Orton, Cena, Ambrose and Lesnar are all your top faces. Compare the heels: Rollins..... Kane and Big Show.... Rusev... The company is face heavy right now, so adding Sheamus as a heel was the right move.

I didn't think it was a burial, because it fits the character he's playing. Now if Ziggler jobs to him in 3 minute matches, then it's a burial. I'm fine with Bryan-Sheamus feuding over the IC strap.

I really like the Lucha Dragons, but good god, putting them in there with the New Day, none of whom have ever worked the Lucha Libre style before and it was asking for trouble. Mistimed moves, which weren't the fault of Kalisto. The Lucha Dragons need to program immediately with the Brass Ring Club (Which is a great name for the Kidd-Cesaro tag team, I think). Both Kidd and Cesaro are familiar with Lucha Libre, especially Cesaro, because back when he was Claudio Castagnoli, he worked for CHIKARA, where most of the guys worked that style.

Since this is the wrestling thread though and not the WWE thread, have any of you guys had a chance to check out some of the other wrestling on TV? ROH, Lucha Underground, New Japan on AXS... All great shows. If you guys are interested in this topic, there's a message board I'm on, called the Craphole forum where we discuss wrestling. I go by the name Schemer on there.

Oh, by the way, those of you, who like me, enjoyed the "Suplex City, bitch" line. There's a shirt with the saying on a site called barbershop window.

[LeBron]

So what do you guys think of the Sheamus return? I agree with the fans when they started chanting "You look stupid" at him last week (for his new look), though I'm really happy to see WWE brought him back as a heel. I don't know what it is, but Irish wrestlers really work better as heels - it worked well originally for Sheamus and like Finlay sort of was, Sheamus is a vicious brawler and is "tough" on the mic so it does work best that he is back a heel.

I just wish in the process of making his "statement" on Raw last week that he wasn't burying Ziggles (who I feel is being mistreated as of late). Nonetheless, Sheamus does appear to be the next in line for an IC Title match.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Sin Cara and now Kalisto (man does he have talent) are on the main roster finally. With Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, Justin Gabriel and others gone now, the WWE does need some more lightweight high-flyers.

He does look stupid. But does anyone remember what he looked like before? He looked like Beaker! Sheamus really had to be a heel on his return though. The only strong heel the company has is Seth Rollins. Compare to the babyface side: Bryan, Reigns, Orton, Cena, Ambrose and Lesnar are all your top faces. Compare the heels: Rollins..... Kane and Big Show.... Rusev... The company is face heavy right now, so adding Sheamus as a heel was the right move.

I didn't think it was a burial, because it fits the character he's playing. Now if Ziggler jobs to him in 3 minute matches, then it's a burial. I'm fine with Bryan-Sheamus feuding over the IC strap.

I really like the Lucha Dragons, but good god, putting them in there with the New Day, none of whom have ever worked the Lucha Libre style before and it was asking for trouble. Mistimed moves, which weren't the fault of Kalisto. The Lucha Dragons need to program immediately with the Brass Ring Club (Which is a great name for the Kidd-Cesaro tag team, I think). Both Kidd and Cesaro are familiar with Lucha Libre, especially Cesaro, because back when he was Claudio Castagnoli, he worked for CHIKARA, where most of the guys worked that style.

Since this is the wrestling thread though and not the WWE thread, have any of you guys had a chance to check out some of the other wrestling on TV? ROH, Lucha Underground, New Japan on AXS... All great shows. If you guys are interested in this topic, there's a message board I'm on, called the Craphole forum where we discuss wrestling. I go by the name Schemer on there.

Oh, by the way, those of you, who like me, enjoyed the "Suplex City, bitch" line. There's a shirt with the saying on a site called barbershop window.

I think we can agree he looks stupid with either look. Although a lot of it has to do with his very, very pale complexion. What I do really like is his new entrance music "Hellfire". It sounds cool and he needed a new theme song. And yeah, I agree it was right by the WWE to bring him back as a heel.

It seems like they are bringing Ziggler (and Sheamus) down a notch though if you saw SmackDown. The two are competing in a "Kiss My Arse" match at Extreme Rules which is really degrading since it's more of a "joke" concept that's mainly only been used by Vince McMahon. For the sake of other fellow gay WWE fans elsewhere though, one can only hope Ziggler wins this match.

The Lucha Dragons would work well with Kidd & Cesaro or even Los Matadores (I heard The Usos will be out of action for awhile after Jey Uso got sidelined recently).

I usually don't watch the other promotional shows, except I will occasionally see an episode of TNA on at night (man have they gone downhill). Though TNA does still have that more "hardcore" approach to their matches and segments that the WWE doesn't embrace, so I will give them that, but they continue to remain the company of all superstars that quit/are fired from the WWE. Thanks for the offer of joining that wrestling forum. I'll consider it though I'm not as active in the IWC Community as I used to be. I did look through the Craphole forum though and I have to say it's pretty funny how you guys also have a forum member named "Mr. X" over there as well.

Meh, the line was funny but I don't know if I'd buy a shirt that says it. What I really want to see is if WWEShop or some other site starts selling Dolph Ziggler's new black/light blue zip hoodie. That would be awesome.

[Dr. Cynic]

So what do you guys think of the Sheamus return? I agree with the fans when they started chanting "You look stupid" at him last week (for his new look), though I'm really happy to see WWE brought him back as a heel. I don't know what it is, but Irish wrestlers really work better as heels - it worked well originally for Sheamus and like Finlay sort of was, Sheamus is a vicious brawler and is "tough" on the mic so it does work best that he is back a heel.

I just wish in the process of making his "statement" on Raw last week that he wasn't burying Ziggles (who I feel is being mistreated as of late). Nonetheless, Sheamus does appear to be the next in line for an IC Title match.

On a side note, I'm happy to see Sin Cara and now Kalisto (man does he have talent) are on the main roster finally. With Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, Justin Gabriel and others gone now, the WWE does need some more lightweight high-flyers.

He does look stupid. But does anyone remember what he looked like before? He looked like Beaker! Sheamus really had to be a heel on his return though. The only strong heel the company has is Seth Rollins. Compare to the babyface side: Bryan, Reigns, Orton, Cena, Ambrose and Lesnar are all your top faces. Compare the heels: Rollins..... Kane and Big Show.... Rusev... The company is face heavy right now, so adding Sheamus as a heel was the right move.

I didn't think it was a burial, because it fits the character he's playing. Now if Ziggler jobs to him in 3 minute matches, then it's a burial. I'm fine with Bryan-Sheamus feuding over the IC strap.

I really like the Lucha Dragons, but good god, putting them in there with the New Day, none of whom have ever worked the Lucha Libre style before and it was asking for trouble. Mistimed moves, which weren't the fault of Kalisto. The Lucha Dragons need to program immediately with the Brass Ring Club (Which is a great name for the Kidd-Cesaro tag team, I think). Both Kidd and Cesaro are familiar with Lucha Libre, especially Cesaro, because back when he was Claudio Castagnoli, he worked for CHIKARA, where most of the guys worked that style.

Since this is the wrestling thread though and not the WWE thread, have any of you guys had a chance to check out some of the other wrestling on TV? ROH, Lucha Underground, New Japan on AXS... All great shows. If you guys are interested in this topic, there's a message board I'm on, called the Craphole forum where we discuss wrestling. I go by the name Schemer on there.

Oh, by the way, those of you, who like me, enjoyed the "Suplex City, bitch" line. There's a shirt with the saying on a site called barbershop window.

I think we can agree he looks stupid with either look. Although a lot of it has to do with his very, very pale complexion. What I do really like is his new entrance music "Hellfire". It sounds cool and he needed a new theme song. And yeah, I agree it was right by the WWE to bring him back as a heel.

It seems like they are bringing Ziggler (and Sheamus) down a notch though if you saw SmackDown. The two are competing in a "Kiss My Arse" match at Extreme Rules which is really degrading since it's more of a "joke" concept that's mainly only been used by Vince McMahon. For the sake of other fellow gay WWE fans elsewhere though, one can only hope Ziggler wins this match.

The Lucha Dragons would work well with Kidd & Cesaro or even Los Matadores (I heard The Usos will be out of action for awhile after Jey Uso got sidelined recently).

I usually don't watch the other promotional shows, except I will occasionally see an episode of TNA on at night (man have they gone downhill). Though TNA does still have that more "hardcore" approach to their matches and segments that the WWE doesn't embrace, so I will give them that, but they continue to remain the company of all superstars that quit/are fired from the WWE. Thanks for the offer of joining that wrestling forum. I'll consider it though I'm not as active in the IWC Community as I used to be. I did look through the Craphole forum though and I have to say it's pretty funny how you guys also have a forum member named "Mr. X" over there as well.

Meh, the line was funny but I don't know if I'd buy a shirt that says it. What I really want to see is if WWEShop or some other site starts selling Dolph Ziggler's new black/light blue zip hoodie. That would be awesome.

I haven't watched Smackdown in awhile. This week I worked till 7 and then stopped off with a few friends to watch the NHL Playoffs. Normally though I simply don't get the chance to see SD. I did know about the Kiss Me Arse match, which is just another bit of nonsense that company does. I think Ziggler will do the job though since they don't seem to want to push him and they are looking to push Sheamus.

Yeah, Jey's gonna be gone for six months. Now Jimmy Uso has a lot of charisma and he could get over on his own if they chose to try it. But what if he got over as a single? Jey doesn't nearly have his charisma and he's not quite as good in the ring. Would they stick them back together? Or would Jey be on the outside? It's an interesting thing to think about. Bryan was sent home from the European tour as well because he has a concussion, so he might be gone for a month or so.

I used to watch TNA when it was on Spike, but I don't get Destination America, so I haven't seen it in ages. It's funny, they had improved dramatically right as they were being kicked off. I hear DA is not nearly so accommodating to them as Spike was and their executives don't understand how wrestling works. TNA also draws well in the UK, so they try to go there as much as possible, but DA wants them to tape here in the U.S. where they can't draw for sh**t. They've also been having problems with payroll. They might not be around by next year.

[Eraserhead]

Well, apparently the WWE has banned the curb stomp finisher. wtf? Lame.

Also, I can't really say I'm too excited about ANY of the matches happening at Extreme Rules on Sunday. I am excited about seeing the crowd reactions to them though since it's in Chicago and they are always nuts. I wonder if Reigns v. Big Show will be booed out of the building...

[LeBron]

I still really enjoy the Authority storyline, and with Kane as the Gatekeeper during the WWE Title Steel Cage match, I'm really curious to see what happens here. I could see Kane costing Rollins the title and the following night on Raw HHH/Steph "kayfabe" fire Kane as the Director of Operations.

Of course, that would look really weak if they only give Rollins a one month title reign. If Creative was smart, I think Rollins would be the perfect champion to do a JBL-esque sort of WWE Title reign with.

As for the other matches:

IC Title - I've heard this might not be happening. As Cynic said, Bryan's out with a concussion so it really depends if this match will be on the card.

U.S. Title - I think this will be an interesting match (it has the same concept of the Texas Bullrope match which in the past has gotten brutal, bloody and long-winded), but it might just end up being a standard Cena "Never Give Up" kind of win. Meh.

Last Man Standing - These always end up ending in a Double KO. If either one wins, it might be Big Show to show his dominance further in the Authority (and tbh Reigns lately has gotten stale for me), but I ultimately think both won't be able to make it to the count of 10.

Kiss Me Arse Match - I agree with you here, Cynman. I doubt Sheamus is going to lose his PPV return debut. Granted, this is PG still so I have a feeling it won't even involve seeing a bare you-know-what on international TV. They'll find a way around that.

Chicago Street Fight - Expect some CM Punk chants during this. This match hasn't really been hyped as much as the rest, but I'm rooting for my home state favorite!

Tag Team Title Match - A pre-PPV match against The New Day? SMH -______-

[Eraserhead]

Well, Extreme Rules was pretty underwhelming as expected.

But apparently we get King of the Ring on the network on Tuesday now. That's pretty awesome.

[Dr. Cynic]

I agree. The funny thing about WWE these days, as opposed to say 18 years ago is, the in-ring product is better than ever. The guys are all better workers than their counterparts from the last boom period, almost without exception.

However, the thing is, while the in ring work is usually very good, the booking makes no sense and actively harms the product half the time. Compare that to the late 90s. Most of the guys were not good in-ring workers, but the booking was so good that something like that didn't matter as much. As I remember it, most matches were just brawls at the time, but it didn't matter as much because the booking was good. Now, we get great matches, but the booking sucks.

It's a funny business.

[Dr. Cynic]

Just got the news that Verne Gagne has died. Gagne was one of the last links to wrestling's first television golden age and he was the owner, booker and primary drawing card of the AWA, based out of Minnesota, but his territory included much of the vast Midwest, including Chicago. Gagne trained a lot of the guys who became major stars including Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Mr. Perfect Curt Hennig, and Sgt. Slaughter. He trained them in a barn under brutal winter conditions.

Gagne's territory was very successful through the 70s and had a huge run from 1981-1983, but the WWF raided the AWA fiercely and by the late 80s, it wasn't pretty. Gagne ended up in bankruptcy court and the AWA folded in 1991.

Gagne and Vince McMahon had a particularly bitter relationship, but this was mostly mended when Verne was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. He'd been struggling with dementia and Alzheimer's disease and in 2009 he got into an altercation with a 97 year old man at the nursing home they resided at. They got into a shoving match and Gagne, being in better shape, took the other man down. The other man died 3 weeks later. However, Gagne was not charged as he had no memory of the incident occurring due to the advanced stage of his illness.

Gagne was 89.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I agree. The funny thing about WWE these days, as opposed to say 18 years ago is, the in-ring product is better than ever. The guys are all better workers than their counterparts from the last boom period, almost without exception.

However, the thing is, while the in ring work is usually very good, the booking makes no sense and actively harms the product half the time. Compare that to the late 90s. Most of the guys were not good in-ring workers, but the booking was so good that something like that didn't matter as much. As I remember it, most matches were just brawls at the time, but it didn't matter as much because the booking was good. Now, we get great matches, but the booking sucks.

It's a funny business.

So in other words WWE is the new WCW.

[Dr. Cynic]

I agree. The funny thing about WWE these days, as opposed to say 18 years ago is, the in-ring product is better than ever. The guys are all better workers than their counterparts from the last boom period, almost without exception.

However, the thing is, while the in ring work is usually very good, the booking makes no sense and actively harms the product half the time. Compare that to the late 90s. Most of the guys were not good in-ring workers, but the booking was so good that something like that didn't matter as much. As I remember it, most matches were just brawls at the time, but it didn't matter as much because the booking was good. Now, we get great matches, but the booking sucks.

It's a funny business.

So in other words WWE is the new WCW.

No, it hasn't reached that depth yet. WCW at the end was worse than anything going on today.

[dead0man]

who else marked out like a ....ummm, mark when the Hardy music hit?