Spanish elections and politics

[Zinneke]

Yep that police response is exactly how to turn the swing voters and the younger generations towards independence. First thoughts are getting over with it, though. Really sad...

[The Saint]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

[Panhandle Progressive]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41459688/police-use-batons-on-crowd-in-barcelona

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41461032

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

[The Saint]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41459688/police-use-batons-on-crowd-in-barcelona

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41461032

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Ok thank you

This whole situation is horrible, and at this point, I find it hard to see how the Catalans won’t vote against secession from the federal government.

[tack50]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41459688/police-use-batons-on-crowd-in-barcelona

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41461032

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Ok thank you

This whole situation is horrible, and at this point, I find it hard to see how the Catalans won’t vote against secession from the federal government.

Well, they won't vote. This referendum is basically worthless and the Spanish government won't give them one. (unless Podemos+nationalists somehow get an absolute majority, but lol)

But yeah, this will just embolden the pro-independence side. I wouldn't be surprised if independence support increases quite a bit after this.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Rajoy and his team coped with that issue probably in the most stupid way it was possible.

[Panhandle Progressive]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41459688/police-use-batons-on-crowd-in-barcelona

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41461032

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Ok thank you

This whole situation is horrible, and at this point, I find it hard to see how the Catalans won’t vote against secession from the federal government.

If you have an extreme problem with a regional government, fire all the local politicians and replace them BEFORE VOTING DAY ARRIVES. YOU ABSOLUTELY DON'T BEAT INDIVIDUAL VOTERS WITH BATONS BECAUSE YOU FAILED AT OPTION #1. sh**tTY SPANISH GOVERNMENT.

[Panhandle Progressive]

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/914481196167516160

The Spanish police are now beating up Catalan firefighters. This is an absolute shocker.

[Panhandle Progressive]

https://twitter.com/bcn_ajuntament/status/914499492992442369

"All police operations against us, a people calling for rights and freedoms, must stop."

[parochial boy]

Genuinely pathetic exercise across the board, but the Spanish government and Rajoy have managed to completely outdo the nationalists. Spain is looking like a joke country today.

[Panhandle Progressive]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLEaENVX0AA5IaI.jpg

Powerful image of firefighters acting as human shield to protect Catalonian people from Spanish police.

[Harlow]

If you have an extreme problem with a regional government, fire all the local politicians and replace them BEFORE VOTING DAY ARRIVES. YOU ABSOLUTELY DON'T BEAT INDIVIDUAL VOTERS WITH BATONS BECAUSE YOU FAILED AT OPTION #1. sh**tTY SPANISH GOVERNMENT.

I don't think a federal coup of Catalonia's regional government would go over particularly well, either...

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I'm fervently opposed to Catalan/Scottish/Confederate/wherever independence because I do not believe that parts of countries with democratic governments should be able to easily leave whenever they happen to disagree with the rest of the country - but I am disgusted by the actions of the Spanish government today.

[The Saint]

PP is gonna suffer majorly for this at the polls, secession or not.  Rajoy is done.

[jaichind]

PP is gonna suffer majorly for this at the polls, secession or not.  Rajoy is done.

Are you sure about that.  I can see PP gaining in places like Andalusia, Extremadura and Castile and León as a result of this. 

[Harlow]

I'm fervently opposed to Catalan/Scottish/Confederate/wherever independence because I do not believe that parts of countries with democratic governments should be able to easily leave whenever they happen to disagree with the rest of the country - but I am disgusted by the actions of the Spanish government today.

The roots of cultural and political division between Catalonia and Spain go back centuries and can't be easily watered down to "leave whenever they happen to disagree with the rest of the country." Likewise for everywhere else you have mentioned.

[tack50]

Official (provisional) results from the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566 (7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (no official data but using the 2015 regional elections as a benchmark it implies 41% turnout)

There are still like 50000 votes not counted.

[Lord Halifax]

Official (provisional) results from the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566 (7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (no official data but using the 2015 regional elections as a benchmark it implies 41% turnout)

There are still like 50000 votes not counted.

Where are they published?

[tack50]

Official (provisional) results from the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566 (7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (no official data but using the 2015 regional elections as a benchmark it implies 41% turnout)

There are still like 50000 votes not counted.

Where are they published?

There was a press conference reciently. They were also published on the official twitter page for the catalan government

https://twitter.com/govern/status/914618211164934144
https://twitter.com/govern/status/914618004582879232

[The Mikado]

I'm fervently opposed to Catalan/Scottish/Confederate/wherever independence because I do not believe that parts of countries with democratic governments should be able to easily leave whenever they happen to disagree with the rest of the country - but I am disgusted by the actions of the Spanish government today.

You should bring that exact question up with regards to Irish independence in the 1910s and see what some of our Irish posters have to say about being a subject minority nation in a country with democratic representation and how well that worked out.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41459688/police-use-batons-on-crowd-in-barcelona

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41461032

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Ok thank you

This whole situation is horrible, and at this point, I find it hard to see how the Catalans won’t vote against secession from the federal government.

Well, they won't vote. This referendum is basically worthless and the Spanish government won't give them one. (unless Podemos+nationalists somehow get an absolute majority, but lol)

But yeah, this will just embolden the pro-independence side. I wouldn't be surprised if independence support increases quite a bit after this.

This referendum is totally legitimate. Let Catalonia be free.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I'm fervently opposed to Catalan/Scottish/Confederate/wherever independence because I do not believe that parts of countries with democratic governments should be able to easily leave whenever they happen to disagree with the rest of the country - but I am disgusted by the actions of the Spanish government today.

As a more libertarian leaning conservative, I support it because Madrid has repeatedly violated human and civil liberties that these people clearly have the right to.

[tack50]

Is the whole situation as bad as the Catalan government says it is? From what I can tell, it is, but since I don’t live in Spain, I’m not 100% sure.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-41459688/police-use-batons-on-crowd-in-barcelona

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41461032

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

Ok thank you

This whole situation is horrible, and at this point, I find it hard to see how the Catalans won’t vote against secession from the federal government.

Well, they won't vote. This referendum is basically worthless and the Spanish government won't give them one. (unless Podemos+nationalists somehow get an absolute majority, but lol)

But yeah, this will just embolden the pro-independence side. I wouldn't be surprised if independence support increases quite a bit after this.

This referendum is totally legitimate. Let Catalonia be free.

Come on. I am not completely against a proper referendum (though I'd try to make it only a last chance compromise, ideally a federal Spain, fiscal autonomy or more self governance should be the preferred options), but this was far from a proper referendum. Even North Korean elections are more reliable.

There was no proper census, people were able to vote more than once, the police closed several polling places, there was an organized unionist boycott, etc.

If this had been a perfectly organized and legal referendum, I'd be the first to support Catalan independence, but this is not the way forward.

[tack50]

The king spoke today on a special speech on national TV. This is actually very unprecedented as the king has only spoken on national TV outside christmas 3 times before: during the 1981 coup, right after the 2004 Madrid bombings and when he anounced his resignation in 2014.

The speech itself was quite uninteresting, just talking about "unadmisible unloyalty" by the Catalan government, guaranteeing Spain's unity and the like. Nothing that he hasn't said before.

It's less about the speech itself and more about the fact that he made a speech on TV.

Also, Rajoy met yesterday with both PSOE leader Pedro Sánchez and Cs leader Albert Rivera, with completely opposite results. Sánchez asked Rajoy to talk with Puigdemont while Rivera asked him to use article 155. Meanwhile Podemos wants PSOE to drop support for Rajoy and call a no confidence vote (which would pass if he got PNV and the Catalan nationalists).

[Kamala]

Wait, Juan Carlos spoke? Or Felipe VI?