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Author Topic: Spanish elections and politics  (Read 370856 times)
jaichind
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« Reply #550 on: December 20, 2015, 04:36:29 PM »

PSOE+Podemos 160 (42.59%) PP-C 162 (42.43%)
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #551 on: December 20, 2015, 04:36:36 PM »

Why is the Senate election producing a PP majority, with Podemos and C's getting next to nothing?

Most likely FPTP
That would explain it - I didn't realise it was FPTP.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #552 on: December 20, 2015, 04:38:19 PM »

Why is the Senate election producing a PP majority, with Podemos and C's getting next to nothing?

demented bloc voting system. It mainly is a problem if the parties wanted to jig the constitution (like, for instance, changing the demented voting system or abolishing the useless upper house, which is worthless even by other nation's upper house's standards. Bicameralism is a plague.)

(also for some reason, only 10% of the Senate votes have been counted, while 80% of the lower house has)

That map on El Pais looks bad. Why people do such things. Worse than UK map made from hexes on BBC as far as I remember.

graphic designers need work, i guess.
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Zanas
Zanas46
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« Reply #553 on: December 20, 2015, 04:52:01 PM »

For the Senate : "Each voter may mark up to three candidates' names, from any party. This is the only occasion when Spanish voters vote for individuals rather than a party list. Panachage is allowed, but typically voters cast all three votes for candidates of a single party. As a result, the four Senators are usually the three candidates from the most popular party and the first placed candidate from the next most popular."

Four senators are elected for each province, regardless of population.
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jaichind
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« Reply #554 on: December 20, 2015, 04:56:48 PM »

PSOE+Podemos 160 (42.71%) PP-C 162 (42.57%)

It is interesting how close the vote shares are as well.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #555 on: December 20, 2015, 05:00:26 PM »

PSOE+Podemos 160 (42.71%) PP-C 162 (42.57%)

It is interesting how close the vote shares are as well.

Again, it doesn't work like that though. I thought the whole point of these elections was the end of bipartisanship. TVE are just stuck in their paradigm.

Can I also have a source where Rivera states PP is his preferred coalition partner.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #556 on: December 20, 2015, 05:04:07 PM »
« Edited: December 20, 2015, 05:05:39 PM by CrabCake the Liberal Magician »

Well, if we follow from the elections in May, C's are more likely to support PP governments' and C's agenda (heavy income and corporate tax cuts; municipal reduction; Austrian labour laws etc.) would be very hard to implement with PSOE and PODEMOS as partners ...
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Zanas
Zanas46
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« Reply #557 on: December 20, 2015, 05:04:08 PM »

I still think PSOE and Podemos could gather enough support with Catalan (and Basque ?) nationalists to form government on promises of referendum(s). It's the only shot at an absolute majority, anyway. I don't think PSOE+Podemos+C's is manageable.
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jaichind
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« Reply #558 on: December 20, 2015, 05:07:28 PM »

PSOE+Podemos 160 (42.71%) PP-C 162 (42.57%)

It is interesting how close the vote shares are as well.

Again, it doesn't work like that though. I thought the whole point of these elections was the end of bipartisanship. TVE are just stuck in their paradigm.

Can I also have a source where Rivera states PP is his preferred coalition partner.

Well, lets accept that it is much more likely Podemos will ally with PSOE and it is much more likely that C will ally with PP.  I am not saying it is destined to take place.
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jaichind
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« Reply #559 on: December 20, 2015, 05:17:12 PM »

PSOE+Podemos 161 (42.68%) PP-C 161 (42.62%)
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Donnie
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« Reply #560 on: December 20, 2015, 05:21:51 PM »

With 97.33 % counted:

PSOE+Podemos 161 seats (42.67%)        PP+C's 161 seats (42.62%)

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CrabCake
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« Reply #561 on: December 20, 2015, 05:22:32 PM »

I bet KIng Felipe is dreading the next two months ...
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jaichind
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« Reply #562 on: December 20, 2015, 05:23:58 PM »

PP deputy PM Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said that PP "has won election."  I guess this is part of the jockeying for position in the battle of government formation.
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Zanas
Zanas46
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« Reply #563 on: December 20, 2015, 05:24:25 PM »

Izquierda Unida gets slaughtered, even with their last minute rebranding as Unidad Popular : they don't get any deputy in either Andalucía or Asturias for example, just 2 seats in the seat-rich Madrid. That's brutal, but they had already survived that in 2008 to come back in 2011. With the uprising of Podemos, however, a come-back should prove waaaay harder.
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jaichind
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« Reply #564 on: December 20, 2015, 05:25:17 PM »

Back to PSOE+Podemos 160  PP-C 162
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RodPresident
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« Reply #565 on: December 20, 2015, 05:29:10 PM »

Back to PSOE+Podemos 160  PP-C 162
You should put Unidad Popular with left-wing bloc.
Kingmakers will be Catalonian separatists.
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jaichind
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« Reply #566 on: December 20, 2015, 05:33:12 PM »

Back to PSOE+Podemos 160  PP-C 162
You should put Unidad Popular with left-wing bloc.
Kingmakers will be Catalonian separatists.

Would Podemos and  Unidad Popular accept being in the same ruling coalition ?
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Zanas
Zanas46
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« Reply #567 on: December 20, 2015, 05:45:29 PM »

Back to PSOE+Podemos 160  PP-C 162
You should put Unidad Popular with left-wing bloc.
Kingmakers will be Catalonian separatists.

Would Podemos and  Unidad Popular accept being in the same ruling coalition ?
Yeah, that one shouldn't really be a problem. Of course, we would only be talking of support anyway.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #568 on: December 20, 2015, 05:48:21 PM »

PSOE+Podemos 160 (42.71%) PP-C 162 (42.57%)

It is interesting how close the vote shares are as well.

Again, it doesn't work like that though. I thought the whole point of these elections was the end of bipartisanship. TVE are just stuck in their paradigm.

Can I also have a source where Rivera states PP is his preferred coalition partner.

Well, lets accept that it is much more likely Podemos will ally with PSOE and it is much more likely that C will ally with PP.  I am not saying it is destined to take place.

No, it really isn't though, unless you follow TVE, who are still stuck in bipartisan logic.

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CrabCake
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« Reply #569 on: December 20, 2015, 05:51:10 PM »

What are the Basques Nationalists main aims? I find it very odd how quiet the Basque areas have been irt the looming breakup of the Spanish state...
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Zinneke
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« Reply #570 on: December 20, 2015, 05:56:15 PM »

What are the Basques Nationalists main aims? I find it very odd how quiet the Basque areas have been irt the looming breakup of the Spanish state...

They already fulfilled them, largely thanks to the ETA. The PNV would like a federal system that allows them to represent Basque interests only in national politics. Bildu want a socialist (or non-neoliberal) state in the same way CC and Esquerra Republicana.

As long as they keep their extra national politics, administration and policing they will be happy though.
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jaichind
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« Reply #571 on: December 20, 2015, 06:00:21 PM »

How hard-line will PP and C be about not doing deals with nationalists forces?  Did not a PP administration with support from nationalists come to power after the 1996 elections ?
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Velasco
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« Reply #572 on: December 20, 2015, 06:02:13 PM »

I still think PSOE and Podemos could gather enough support with Catalan (and Basque ?) nationalists to form government on promises of referendum(s). It's the only shot at an absolute majority, anyway. I don't think PSOE+Podemos+C's is manageable.

No. I don't see Pedro Sánchez leading a very weak government propped up by Catalan separatists on the promise of a referendum in Catalonia . That would tear PSOE apart  and  Andalusian premier Susana Díaz  would never allow such a move .

Right now, I can hardly see a way to prevent another election within a few months.





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CrabCake
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« Reply #573 on: December 20, 2015, 06:05:44 PM »

What are the Basques Nationalists main aims? I find it very odd how quiet the Basque areas have been irt the looming breakup of the Spanish state...

They already fulfilled them, largely thanks to the ETA. The PNV would like a federal system that allows them to represent Basque interests only in national politics. Bildu want a socialist (or non-neoliberal) state in the same way CC and Esquerra Republicana.

As long as they keep their extra national politics, administration and policing they will be happy though.

But weren't CiU non-separatist until the economic crash? Could PNV be radiclaised by am Artur Mas like figure?

Are Coalico Compromis separatists? They are on a list with PODEMOS, so I assumed they were more soft nationalists.
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Donnie
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« Reply #574 on: December 20, 2015, 06:06:26 PM »

With 99.43% counted:

PP+C's 163 seats (42.64%)         PSOE+Podemos 159 seats (42.67%)    
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