🇦🇹 Austria General Discussion

[Tender Branson]

Today's the last day of the year and that's a pretty interesting finding:

This year, there have been "only" 9 murders in Vienna (which now has a population of 1.8 million)

The previous record low was 13 murders in 2003.

Vienna had an average of 40 murders each year in the 1980s, with the population back then only 1.45 million.

That means the murder rate dropped from 2.8 cases/100.000 people in the 1980s to only 0.5 now.

Also, the newspaper report said that since early 2009, all murder cases have been solved since then. So, a 100% clearance rate for the past 5 years.

...

I just checked comparable US cities such as Houston (2.2 million people) or Philly (1.6 million).

Philly had around 250 murders this year and Houston around 220.

[Tender Branson]

It has absolutely nothing to do with guns. You can be sure of that.

I know that your comment is sarcastic. But for sure it has to do with it. Since Austria passed a drastic new gun-control law in 1997, the number of gun-homicides dropped by almost 70% and gun-suicides dropped by 30%.

http://www.news.at/a/strengeres-waffengesetz-suizide-morde-1997-170834

Of course, better forensic analysis and offender profiling might have helped too, but it was certainly a good step. These days, potential killers are likely deterred by these increasingly sophisticated methods, because they know that they will be caught with a near 100% certainty.

Only 10% of murder cases here involve a gun anymore, compared to 70% of murder cases in the US.

The most spectacular murder this year in Vienna was actually one that killed the victim with a handgranade that was thrown into the car by the Bosnian killer.

Oh and I'm waiting for the FPÖ to make a big statement on that. Will they ?

I guess not. While the FPÖ favors looser gun-laws, they focus more on property crimes (committed by Eastern European foreigners), rather than murders.

[Tender Branson]

Another year is over and 2014 was indeed an outlier:

* 2014 had a record low of just 9 murders in Vienna (even Austria-wide, 2014 was a record-low-murder-year, with just 38 cases among 8.6 million people)

* 2015 had 20 murders so far, which is more than double the 2014 number, but still very low for a city of 1.8 million people

http://wien.orf.at/news/stories/2749577

PS: All 20 murders in Vienna this year were solved. As were all murders dating back to 2009.

[Tender Branson]

Naive left-leftism in action!

Nope, naive left-leftism has nothing to do with it - unless you can explain what you mean by it.

[Tender Branson]

2 other states (Lower Austria and Salzburg) have released their 2015 numbers as well in the last days and the trend so far points to an Austrian murder rate which is back up to the normal 0.7-0.8 cases per 100.000 people.

2014 was really an extremely low outlier.

[Tender Branson]

All of those Syrians FLOODING over the border must be up to other nefarious deeds instead.

I have already explained this here (yes, asylum seekers do have a much higher murder rate than Austrians or foreigners in general):

Currently, 62.000 asylum seekers in Austria are getting government aid (usually, the basic minimum aid that every person incl. Austrian citizens who often worked years and paid into the system are getting => 850€ a month).

As I've posted above, this number is expected to increase to around 85.000 by the end of the year, because in October alone there have been 11.000 asylum applications here.

http://orf.at/stories/2307874/2307862

Also, a look at the new crime statistics from Jan.-June 2015:

There have been 83 murders (incl. attempts) in the first 6 months of 2015, of which 45 were committed by foreigners. Of the foreigners, 16 were asylum seekers.

In other words:

There are 7.430.000 Austrian citizens who committed 38 murders.

There are 1.210.000 foreigners in Austria who committed 45 murders.

There are 62.000 asylum seekers in Austria who committed 16 murders.

The murder rates (per 100.000 people)

Austrian citizens: 0.5
Foreigners: 3.7
Asylum seekers: 25.8

http://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/VHG/XXV/AB/AB_05631/imfname_463492.pdf

[Tender Branson]

Well, the new year is off to a bad start:

Murder victim's head found in concrete block

Police have told a press conference in Linz that a woman whose dismembered body was found hidden in two suitcases in a lake in Upper Austria was likely strangled. Her head, which was missing, was later found encased in concrete.

A second body, that of a man, was found in Traunsee on Monday afternoon, about 5 km from the shore. He had bags containing stones and a concrete block tied to his hands. The concrete block concealed the woman's missing head.

Upper Austrian police chief Gottfried Mitterlehner told the press conference that detectives believe the man murdered the woman and then drowned himself.

http://www.thelocal.at/20160105/second-body-found-in-traunsee-lake

[Tender Branson]

  The details of the crime report in Tender's link  shows, to quote former New York mayor David Dinkins, a "gorgeous mosaic" of nationalities with juicy representation of immigrants from all over the place.  Looks like Syrians represent but a small fraction of asylum applicant wrong doers.
  So Asylum seekers are only 50 times more likely to commit murder than Austrian citizens.

The "Austrian citizens" murder rate is not adjusted though for an unknown number of murder victims who are stored somewhere in basements across the country.

So, not directly comparable ...

[Tender Branson]

Well, the new year is off to a bad start:

Murder victim's head found in concrete block

Police have told a press conference in Linz that a woman whose dismembered body was found hidden in two suitcases in a lake in Upper Austria was likely strangled. Her head, which was missing, was later found encased in concrete.

A second body, that of a man, was found in Traunsee on Monday afternoon, about 5 km from the shore. He had bags containing stones and a concrete block tied to his hands. The concrete block concealed the woman's missing head.

Upper Austrian police chief Gottfried Mitterlehner told the press conference that detectives believe the man murdered the woman and then drowned himself.

http://www.thelocal.at/20160105/second-body-found-in-traunsee-lake

Interestingly enough, it turned out that both were Germans from the state of Hessen.

Pretty bizarre that a German would kill his wife, dismember her and encase her head in concrete, then drive 500 miles to some lake in Austria to dump her and kill himself.

[Tender Branson]

It's Christmas, time to look at the most and least peaceful cities again:

Another year is over and 2014 was indeed an outlier:

* 2014 had a record low of just 9 murders in Vienna (even Austria-wide, 2014 was a record-low-murder-year, with just 38 cases among 8.6 million people)

* 2015 had 20 murders so far, which is more than double the 2014 number, but still very low for a city of 1.8 million people

http://wien.orf.at/news/stories/2749577

PS: All 20 murders in Vienna this year were solved. As were all murders dating back to 2009.

* 2016 so far (until mid-December):

14 murders, not an all-time low but also not really high. Even though Vienna's population has grown to 1.9 million.

That's a murder rate of 0.7/100.000 people

Look how this compares with big US cities.

(The only big US city which can somewhat match Vienna is Seattle, which will likely have 2.4/100.000 this year).

[Tender Branson]

So far, 4/9 Austrian states have released their murder count for 2016:

Vienna: 15
Lower Austria: 9
Salzburg: 2
Tyrol: 1

Total: 27

These 4 states have a population of 4.8 million people, so the murder rate was 0.6/100.000 people.

For comparison, Chicago (2.7 million people), had 760 murders last year ... (rate: 28/100.000)

[Tender Branson]

STOP

[Tender Branson]

We don't need 3-5 f**king threads about crime statistics in a second-rate European capital.

Sure.

And first-rate, not 2nd rate ... Tony.

It's the 5th biggest city in the EU.

[Tender Branson]

I'm not "bragging", I just post facts.

And as you can see, I already started posting it before the Middle-Eastern and North African migrants even came in ...

Besides, I am consistent: I have already posted before that foreigners in Austria have a very high crime rate and also murder rate (their share in the population is 13%, but make up 45% of all murder perpetrators and 35% of rapists).

[Tender Branson]

---

A group of ~20 to 30 Chechen men met yesterday night at the Danube Island north of the city center.

Concerned residents called the police because the men behaved suspiciously.

When police arrived, one of the men wanted to hide a handgun in the snow.

Police also found a machine gun and plenty of ammunition.

All men have been arrested on terrorism charges.

https://kurier.at/chronik/wien/donauinsel-22-maenner-mit-maschinenpistole-festgenommen/244.778.482

[Tender Branson]

Just recently, a few Chechens threatened to kill Foreign and Integration Minister Sebastian Kurz (ÖVP) because he and his SPÖ-counterpart put a full-face veil ban law on the agenda for this year.

They said: "If we meet Mr. Kurz, we'll kill him because prostitutes are allowed to run around almost naked on the streets of Austria, while our veiled sisters are targeted by this motherfu**er."

Probably the arrest was not related with this (there are some 40.000 Chechens in Austria), but you never know. The fewer guns these Islamofascists have, or the more of them are deported from here, the better ...

[Tender Branson]

The fewer guns these Islamofascists have, or the more of them are deported from here, the better ...

Chechens are barely Muslim. If you think that what drives them is Islam, you know nothing of Chechnya. Islam for them is just another way of saying "we are what we are".

I guess you are wrong. Almost all of the Chechens here in Austria are Muslims and according to many experts, they are one of the most radical ones around here (next to the Saudis and Salafists from the Gulf).

In fact, 80% of Austrian "foreign fighters" (= people who went to Iraq and Syria to fight for ISIS, or returned back "home") were Chechens ...

[Tender Branson]

The fewer guns these Islamofascists have, or the more of them are deported from here, the better ...

Chechens are barely Muslim. If you think that what drives them is Islam, you know nothing of Chechnya. Islam for them is just another way of saying "we are what we are".

I guess you are wrong. Almost all of the Chechens here in Austria are Muslims and according to many experts, they are one of the most radical ones around here (next to the Saudis and Salafists from the Gulf).

In fact, 80% of Austrian "foreign fighters" (= people who went to Iraq and Syria to fight for ISIS, or returned back "home") were Chechens ...

They are Muslim, of course, and many are outwardly devout. But what is driving them is not being Muslim. It just so happens that they spent centuries fighting a Christian neighbour (Russia), so Islam is part of their nationalism. But nationalism and tribal affiliation is what drives them. Things like blood revenge are much more salient there than anything coming from any religion. You will understand them much better if you think Sicily, not ISIS.

Not so sure about that. I once watched an ORF documentary about ISIS recruitment in Vienna (am Schauplatz, I guess) and Chechens are one of the most devout visitors of mosques in Vienna.

And not only that, Chechens are generally pretty violent there for years, with gang warfare, beating up women, drug dealing, rapes, and hitmans killings (even a prominent one which was directed personally by Kadyrow himself).

And the above-mentioned ISIS-fighters of course.

So, no need to trivialise the pain in the ass that many of them are ...

[Tender Branson]

Another of these "unique" horror cases, committed by "refugees" ...



The story is this:

A young woman from Germany visited her friend in Vienna who was studying there. They went out into a crowded bar during the evening. Some Iraqi men (all of them "refugees" who arrived in 2015) filled her up with vodka and took her to the apartment where some of the men were living in. They planned the gang-rape before. They sent the female family members who were living with them to another apartment so that they are not "disturbed".

Then they gang-raped her for several hours and took selfies. One of the men later testified that "she was a nasty woman and that raping her wasn't easy because she constantly cried and screamed".

In the morning, they dumped her at a subway station. The traumatized woman was found by pedestrians who called the ambulance. Now, the woman is a psychological wreck.

The 9 men (of which 4 are already recognized asylum seekers on welfare) will get between 5-15 years in prison. They cannot be deported to Iraq, because they'd get the death penalty there.

http://wien.orf.at/news/stories/2826866

[Tender Branson]

You guys are not getting it ...

There are 7.4 million Austrians and 1.4 million foreigners in the country.

Of the 1.4 million foreigners, around 10% (140.000) are recently-arrived asylum seekers.

Almost all of the high-profile rape cases in recent years are committed by aslum seekers - allthough they are not even 2% of the overall population.

Rape among Austrian citizens is extremely rare (Austrians used to kill quite a few prostitutes back in the 1980s, but rape ... it's very rare these days).

Besides, I sometimes post some horrible crimes committed by Austrians too (like a few years ago when some guy shot and killed 4 police officers/ambulance drivers etc.) - but these are rare cases every few years - and not on a daily basis like the immigrant rape and murder cases.

Subtle, Tender. I guess you would be sharing this if it had been Austrian citizens doing the rape?

Regardless, yes, this is a terrible crime, these men should be in prison, longer than 5-15 years, I think. Life if the Austrian legal system allows for it.

There's no dispute that the crime is terrible, just the terribly unsubtle message of "REFUGEES BAD NATIONALISM GOOD".

The crime is considered "grievous bodily harm" and the max. sentence is 15 years.

Life imprisonment (which is what they should get) is not an option.

Besides, nationalism has nothing to do with it.

[Tender Branson]

Almost all of the high-profile rape cases in recent years are committed by aslum seekers - allthough they are not even 2% of the overall population.

Last October, the Federal Criminal Police of Germany released numbers that more than 95% of all sex crimes in Germany are committed by non-asylum seekers ("Kriminalität im Kontext von Zuwanderung - Bundeslagebild 2015" from October 18, page 14).

I can't imagine that Austria is radically different from Germany in that respect. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the ration is a bit lower in Austria, since they do have fewer refugees. Have you tried to ascertain whether Austrian police has released such numbers?

In any case, it certainly stands out that you only post about the 5% of rapes which are committed by refugees and never about the 95% of rapes which are committed by non-refugees.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=255275.msg5452085#msg5452085

Btw: Austria doesn't have fewer refugees. The numbers are roughly comparable with Germany percentage-wise.

And also, you say that asylum seekers are responsible for 5% of all rapes in Germany, but they only make up 1-2% of the population. Which means they have a much higher rape-rate than Germans.

[Tender Branson]

There was a parliamentary inquiry about "rapes committed by foreigners and asylum seekers", to which the Interior Minister replied:

https://www.parlament.gv.at/PAKT/VHG/XXV/AB/AB_09970/imfname_576696.pdf

In 2015, there were 826 rapes and 688 suspects, of which 250 were foreigners (36%).

39 were asylum seekers (5.7% of suspects)

In 2016 (Jan. to Sept.), there were 677 rapes and 594 suspects, of which 257 were foreigners (43%).

91 were asylum seekers (15.3% of suspects)

...

So, the number of foreign rape suspects, especially asylum seekers, increased significantly last year - despite only making up 1-2% of the population.

I assume the figures for Germany that you cited were from 2015, so get ready for a massive spike in asylum seeker rapes for 2016 there as well ...

[Tender Branson]

And also, you say that asylum seekers are responsible for 5% of all rapes in Germany, but they only make up 1-2% of the population. Which means they have a much higher rape-rate than Germans.

In Germany, it's slightly more than 2% actually. And the Federal Criminal Police didn't use asylum seekers alone, but also a couple of other groups such as illegals.

And it doesn't change the fact that 100% of your posts about rape are dealing with the 5% of refugees, and 0% of your posts are dealing with the 95% of non-refugees. Wouldn't it be much fairer if only 5% of your "rape posts" were about rape committed by refugees? I certainly wouldn't complain then. But the way it is now, you get the impression that you don't actually care about rape, but about refugees.

I certainly care more about the rape victims than most of the leftists with their constant euphemism towards the disgusting crime committed by "refugees".

BTW: Why should I regularly report rape crimes of Austrians or Germans, when in fact a disproportional amount of rapes are committed by non-Austrians or non-Germans ?

Yes, Austrians and Germans rape and this sucks - but we have to look at the share and here the statistics speak volumes: If a population group makes up 1-2% of the population and commits 15% of the rapes, there's a problem. Obviously, you will just continue to ignore that problem, as usual ...

[Tender Branson]

We're pushing back against this absurd demonization of all refugees by Tender and co.

Typical storyline to attack me for "demonization of all refugees" ...

I'm only attacking certain "refugees", the rapists and killers etc. (who make up a disproportionate share, like I already mentioned).

IMO, these people (who are often shielded not only by ultra-leftists, but also by a lack of repatriation treaties) should be strapped to a parachute and thrown out over the airspace of their respective home countries with a solid kick in their ass.

At least better than feeding them through in our prisons.

The remaining non-criminal refugees (especially women and kids) can stay and integrate.

[Tender Branson]

Why do you write it as "refugees"?

Because they are highly criminal scum and not refugees.

Refugees do not abuse the host country by gang raping women ...

Plus DavidB.s comment.