🇦🇹 Austria General Discussion

[Lord Halifax]

The fewer guns these Islamofascists have, or the more of them are deported from here, the better ...

Chechens are barely Muslim. If you think that what drives them is Islam, you know nothing of Chechnya. Islam for them is just another way of saying "we are what we are".

I guess you are wrong. Almost all of the Chechens here in Austria are Muslims and according to many experts, they are one of the most radical ones around here (next to the Saudis and Salafists from the Gulf).

In fact, 80% of Austrian "foreign fighters" (= people who went to Iraq and Syria to fight for ISIS, or returned back "home") were Chechens ...

They are Muslim, of course, and many are outwardly devout. But what is driving them is not being Muslim. It just so happens that they spent centuries fighting a Christian neighbour (Russia), so Islam is part of their nationalism. But nationalism and tribal affiliation is what drives them. Things like blood revenge are much more salient there than anything coming from any religion. You will understand them much better if you think Sicily, not ISIS.

Not so sure about that. I once watched an ORF documentary about ISIS recruitment in Vienna (am Schauplatz, I guess) and Chechens are one of the most devout visitors of mosques in Vienna.

And not only that, Chechens are generally pretty violent there for years, with gang warfare, beating up women, drug dealing, rapes, and hitmans killings (even a prominent one which was directed personally by Kadyrow himself).

And the above-mentioned ISIS-fighters of course.

So, no need to trivialise the pain in the ass that many of them are ...

You don't have to an Islamist to be a menace (or a pain in the ass). Coming a violent clan culture is wholly sufficient. ISIS is as much about looth and plunder as it is about Islamism.

[Lord Halifax]

Yesterday, an Afghan man was sentenced to life in prison for almost killing his girlfriend by brutally stabbing her 5 times in her face and head.

The woman somehow survived, but is paralyzed on one side of her body, has brain damage and in need of constant care.

The motive for the killing was that the woman wanted to end the relationship with him.

https://kurier.at/chronik/wien/lebenslange-haft-fuer-mordversuch-an-ex-freundin/275.643.475

Was the victim also Afghan?

[Lord Halifax]

Good background from "The National Interest" with Austria as primary case.

I've Worked with Refugees for Decades. Europe's Afghan Crime Wave Is Mind-Boggling.
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/ive-worked-refugees-decades-europes-afghan-crime-wave-mind-21506

[Lord Halifax]

Another year is over and Vienna had 17 murders this year (a rate of 0.9/100.000 people).

Compared with Philly (315 murders so far), the rate is 20/100.000.

Those new Syrian refugees must be busy not murdering each other.

Once again, you are misinterpreting these numbers:

We have imported additional crimes by allowing this uncontrolled mass immigration to happen.

Crimes that would have otherwise not happened. Many young Austrian/German/Swedish etc. women would be unraped now and many people would not be dead now or beaten up.

Apart from Donald Trump's latest "let's mock the climate change" tweet, this is literally the dumbest thing I had to read all week. I feel like Tender owes me money as compensation for having to endure reading this post.

Why is that dumb? Crime in any society increases with a higher share of young males, if those young males come from violent societies and disproportionally have been through traumatic events this will significantly increase the effect.

[Lord Halifax]

Another year is over and Vienna had 17 murders this year (a rate of 0.9/100.000 people).

Compared with Philly (315 murders so far), the rate is 20/100.000.

Those new Syrian refugees must be busy not murdering each other.

Once again, you are misinterpreting these numbers:

We have imported additional crimes by allowing this uncontrolled mass immigration to happen.

Crimes that would have otherwise not happened. Many young Austrian/German/Swedish etc. women would be unraped now and many people would not be dead now or beaten up.

Apart from Donald Trump's latest "let's mock the climate change" tweet, this is literally the dumbest thing I had to read all week. I feel like Tender owes me money as compensation for having to endure reading this post.

Why is that dumb? Crime in any society increases with a higher share of young males, if those young males come from violent societies and disproportionally have been through traumatic events this will significantly increase the effect.

Because migrants commit crimes against non-migrants. Non-migrants commit crimes against migrants. Migrants commit crimes against other migrants. And non-migrants commit crimes against other non-migrants. The idea that you can calculate some kind of balance sheet where you put the pure "migrant perpetrator"/"non-migrant victim" ratio against the pure "non-migrant perpetrator"/"migrant victim" ratio while completely deducting the migrant-against-migrant crimes and non-migrant-against-non-migrant crimes so in the end you have a pure net balance which shows which group has "scored" higher against the other group is simply preposterous and also intellectually offensive. It also happens to be racist thinking, because among other things it inevitably places higher value on a non-migrant victim of a crime than a migrant victim.

Also... migrants who have comitted a crime in Austria may have comitted the same crime had they been someplace else. Or maybe they wouldn't have, since crimes often depend on the exact circumstances of where, when, and why. Maybe a migrant who's now in Austria and has never committed a crime, would have a committed a crime if he had ended up in Germany instead. And if we follow that thinking further, a migrant who has committed a crime in Vienna now may have never committed that crime had he been in Salzburg instead. And a crime that was committed by a Austrian in, let's say, South Africa, may or may not have committed as well had he stayed in Austria.

So, what's the point of all this?

Also, the phrase "many young  women would be unraped now" makes my brain hurt.

You are unnecessarily complicating something quite simple. You do not need to include all those factors to access this. A government is primarily obliged to protect its own citizens, so the relevant question is "does inviting large numbers of young males from countries with a high degree of violence, and who are often traumatized, increase the risk for your citizens?". The answer to that question is fairly obvious.

Young males are always the most criminal group in any society, so increasing their number inevitably makes society more violent (this is of course not to say that young men do not contribute positively in other ways), this gets significantly worse if the male/female ratio is skewed among the younger generations (though only if there are more young men than young women, the opposite doesn't increase the level of overall violence). Men who grew up in a violent environment become more violent than those who didn't. All these effects are well documented.

[Lord Halifax]

Deportations of Afghans apparently increasing significantly in recent days:

https://kurier.at/chronik/oesterreich/oesterreich-gross-angelegte-abschiebungs-aktion-im-laufen/400016968

Austria's "ICE" (deportation force) has been instructed by the FPÖ Interior Ministry to round up more than 400 Afghans for deportation to Kabul.

This would be the biggest single deportation order to one country in history.

Excellent.

Kickl, the FPÖ Interior Minister, has announced at the start of his term that deportations will go up significantly this year, so this is nothing new.

The bad thing is that certain groups are asking (rejected) aslyum seekers to hide somewhere to avoid being rounded up by the deportation force ...

Will the Afghans accept them? Typically the big problem with deporting people from Europe has been that their home country rejects taking back their citizens if they do not go voluntarily.

[Lord Halifax]

Those shot dead and wounded today and most likely the killer too were from the Serb/Montenegrin mafia.

Maybe Omega21 can do the translating ...

http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/hronika/aktuelno.291.html:767413-NOVOSTI-SAZNAJU-Ubijeni-Vlada-Roganovic-i-Stefan-Vilotijevic

Vlada Roganović and Stefan Vilotijević killed

In a shooting in the centre of Vienna at 13:30, Vladimir Roganović (31) from Herceg Novog (MNE) was killed. He was regarded as a member of the "infamous" "kavač" clan from Montenegro.

"According to our information, this "tough guy" was eliminated along with another member of the previously mentioned organization."

The second victim is "Stefan Vilotijević" from Nikšić.

Both were shot in the head.

It is also being reported that those involved in the shooting yelled "Brate brate", which is something that is commonly heard around Serbia and Montenegro, and would be similar to "Mate" in GB, although the exact meaning is "Brother".

So, seems like a few sh**theads taking their sh**t out on the streets, can't they just kill each other somewhere where there are no people around...

Anyway, hope they get arrested, given 40-year sentences, and deported if possible.

Thanks.

Yeah, maybe not "mafia" as I wrote, but intra-clan-fights.

But what does clan mean in this context if it's not just a mafia family? How old are these clans?

[Lord Halifax]

Joe made an excellent point, as usual.

Beside, I'm starting to think whether this thread, especially the way its being presented, does belong to a "political discussion" board, or should go somewhere else.

It's basically OT.