New Pope is a former Hitler Youth...?

[Blue Rectangle]

In fact, the only countries allied with Nazi Germany that weren't Catholic were Japan and Romania.

And Bulgaria.

Out of Germany, Italy, Japan, Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary (the six Axis nations), only Italy and Hungary have Catholic majorities.

The European countries on the side of Germany (the above, plus Finland, Croatia, etc.) represent populations that are about 1/3 each of Catholic, Lutheran and Eastern Orthodox.

Many of Germany's friends were driven by hatred of Germany's enemies: the Irish and Ukrainians were sympathetic because they hated the British and Russians, respectively.  This doesn't make them bad people any more that Stalin's opposition to Hitler makes him a hero.  These aliances were driven by politics and old ethnic hatreds, not religion.

[Jake]

Then what is your point. Posting random links about fascist clergy must have a point ?

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

While I am not excited by the choice of the new pope, I am also not Catholic so I don't feel that I'm in a position to judge.  That having been said, I did attend a mass the other day, which is more than can be said for many American Catholics

This argument is wholly absurd.  Ratzinger is the most trusted confidant of JPII and surely has the same views of religious tolerance that JPII had.

Are all athiests bad because Stalin was an athiest and supported by athiests and became a leader through an athiest system of government?

[12th Doctor]

Well yes but there were many fascists in those countries that supported the Nazis, and they were Catholic clerical fascists. Look up the Rexist movement in Belgium, and of course there was the government of Vichy France. I think it's ridiculous to claim that Nazi Germany was anti-Catholic when most of its allies not only tolerated Catholicism, but imposed it. In fact, the only countries allied with Nazi Germany that weren't Catholic were Japan and Romania. Yes there were many Catholics that opposed the Nazis, but they were not clerical fascists.

Is a quote like this, or the one I posted by Hitler himself not sufficient to prove that Nazis hated Catholics:

"It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the war for an over-all solution of this problem."
Joseph Goebbels's diary, 26 March 1942 (Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, p. 146)

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=29375

http://www.catholictradition.org/dachau.htm


Then there is also this famous poem by Rev. Niemoller, which I am sure that you have probabally never read, but it confirms what I am saying from a first hand perspective:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

In fact, the only countries allied with Nazi Germany that weren't Catholic were Japan and Romania.

And Bulgaria.

Out of Germany, Italy, Japan, Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary (the six Axis nations), only Italy and Hungary have Catholic majorities.

The European countries on the side of Germany (the above, plus Finland, Croatia, etc.) represent populations that are about 1/3 each of Catholic, Lutheran and Eastern Orthodox.

Many of Germany's friends were driven by hatred of Germany's enemies: the Irish and Ukrainians were sympathetic because they hated the British and Russians, respectively.  This doesn't make them bad people any more that Stalin's opposition to Hitler makes him a hero.  These aliances were driven by politics and old ethnic hatreds, not religion.

Croatia IS a predominately Catholic country. And I'd read the links on what the Ustase did before saying that they weren't bad people and simply sided with Hitler out of ethnic hatred. Anyone would defend them is one truly sick person. Are you saying it wasn't wrong to side with the Nazis because that made it easier for them to oppress and persecute the Serbs?

And you're talking about the main Axis Powers, in which case it's true. But the Nazis had many allies in other nations that were mostly Catholic, The Vichy French, The Rexist Belgians, the puppet government of Slovakia and Franco's Spain.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Well yes but there were many fascists in those countries that supported the Nazis, and they were Catholic clerical fascists. Look up the Rexist movement in Belgium, and of course there was the government of Vichy France. I think it's ridiculous to claim that Nazi Germany was anti-Catholic when most of its allies not only tolerated Catholicism, but imposed it. In fact, the only countries allied with Nazi Germany that weren't Catholic were Japan and Romania. Yes there were many Catholics that opposed the Nazis, but they were not clerical fascists.

Is a quote like this, or the one I posted by Hitler himself not sufficient to prove that Nazis hated Catholics:

"It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the war for an over-all solution of this problem."
Joseph Goebbels's diary, 26 March 1942 (Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, p. 146)

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=29375

http://www.catholictradition.org/dachau.htm


Then there is also this famous poem by Rev. Niemoller, which I am sure that you have probabally never read, but it confirms what I am saying from a first hand perspective:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

THEN WHY DID THEY SIDE WITH CATHOLIC CLERICAL FASCISTS? And vice-versa? Why would a militantly Catholic group like the Ustase side with people who hated them? Geez.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Please produce better lies than claiming the Catholic Center Party supported Hitler. Make them lies at least some people would be dumb enough to believe, well, aside from your communist-addled selves.

Hey, dummy, next time you call out someone on a lie, you might want to check to see whether they're right first. Typical lying Republican.



MARCH 23, 1933
THE REICHSTAG (GERMAN PARLIAMENT) VOTES LEGISLATIVE POWER TO HITLER

After the failure of the Nazi party to win a majority in parliament, Adolf Hitler introduces a bill that would give his government legislative authority. The Nazis, the Conservatives, and the Catholic Center Party support this so-called "Enabling Act," which would grant Hitler's government the power to decree laws without a vote in parliament for a four-year period. Communist and many Socialist opponents were arrested before the vote. In the end, only the remaining Socialists oppose the measure. The bill passes. Hitler soon outlaws all political parties in Germany--except the Nazi party.

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/nrulechr.htm

WOW... what evidence.  All the parties supported the same act.  That is dynamite right there.  Why not look at the list of priests and nuns who were killed by the Nazis instead?  Keep drinking the Kool-aid

You're excusing the people who gave Hitler dictatorial powers? That's sad.

[12th Doctor]

Well yes but there were many fascists in those countries that supported the Nazis, and they were Catholic clerical fascists. Look up the Rexist movement in Belgium, and of course there was the government of Vichy France. I think it's ridiculous to claim that Nazi Germany was anti-Catholic when most of its allies not only tolerated Catholicism, but imposed it. In fact, the only countries allied with Nazi Germany that weren't Catholic were Japan and Romania. Yes there were many Catholics that opposed the Nazis, but they were not clerical fascists.

Is a quote like this, or the one I posted by Hitler himself not sufficient to prove that Nazis hated Catholics:

"It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the war for an over-all solution of this problem."
Joseph Goebbels's diary, 26 March 1942 (Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, p. 146)

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=29375

http://www.catholictradition.org/dachau.htm


Then there is also this famous poem by Rev. Niemoller, which I am sure that you have probabally never read, but it confirms what I am saying from a first hand perspective:

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

THEN WHY DID THEY SIDE WITH CATHOLIC CLERICAL FASCISTS? And vice-versa? Why would a militantly Catholic group like the Ustase side with people who hated them? Geez.

Ummm... why did Hitler and Stalin temporarily align with each other and then why did Churchill align with Stalin?  They all hated each other.  It was done, either out of exceptional circustances, or convinience.  Some preist thought they could save their bacon by siding with the Nazis and the Nazis thought they could advert a revolt by siding with these preists.  Are you really blinded that badly by your will to prove that the Church was pro-Nazi or that the Nazis were pro-Catholic?

[12th Doctor]

Please produce better lies than claiming the Catholic Center Party supported Hitler. Make them lies at least some people would be dumb enough to believe, well, aside from your communist-addled selves.

Hey, dummy, next time you call out someone on a lie, you might want to check to see whether they're right first. Typical lying Republican.



MARCH 23, 1933
THE REICHSTAG (GERMAN PARLIAMENT) VOTES LEGISLATIVE POWER TO HITLER

After the failure of the Nazi party to win a majority in parliament, Adolf Hitler introduces a bill that would give his government legislative authority. The Nazis, the Conservatives, and the Catholic Center Party support this so-called "Enabling Act," which would grant Hitler's government the power to decree laws without a vote in parliament for a four-year period. Communist and many Socialist opponents were arrested before the vote. In the end, only the remaining Socialists oppose the measure. The bill passes. Hitler soon outlaws all political parties in Germany--except the Nazi party.

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/nrulechr.htm

WOW... what evidence.  All the parties supported the same act.  That is dynamite right there.  Why not look at the list of priests and nuns who were killed by the Nazis instead?  Keep drinking the Kool-aid

You're excusing the people who gave Hitler dictatorial powers? That's sad.

Ummm... no.  What I was saying is that everyone did it, so that really proves absolutly nothing.  Even Bismark supported this move and he hated Hitler.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The church didn't oppose the Nazis.

Partisan Democrats certainly do include jFraud and this is evidenced by his continual posts trying to bag every and any Republican.

I back up what I say with evidence, unlike a lot of the Republicans. 

Doth I see a contradiction?  Me thinks I do.

Hey, dumbsh**t, read here. He was so afraid of being seen pro-communist that he was afraid to condemn the nazis.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html


I love it when members of the Liar party always claim I'm wrong, and it turns out that since they are a Liar, they are wrong.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

I'm pointing out that a very high number of Catholics were pro-Nazi. Complete list:

Vichy government in France
Rexists in Belgium
government of Italy
Puppet government of Slovakia
Ustase
government of Hungary
Franco's Spain

Would Kach, who are Jewish fascists, side with the Nazis just because both are fascists? Of course not. Yet Catholic fascists had no problems doing so.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Please produce better lies than claiming the Catholic Center Party supported Hitler. Make them lies at least some people would be dumb enough to believe, well, aside from your communist-addled selves.

Hey, dummy, next time you call out someone on a lie, you might want to check to see whether they're right first. Typical lying Republican.



MARCH 23, 1933
THE REICHSTAG (GERMAN PARLIAMENT) VOTES LEGISLATIVE POWER TO HITLER

After the failure of the Nazi party to win a majority in parliament, Adolf Hitler introduces a bill that would give his government legislative authority. The Nazis, the Conservatives, and the Catholic Center Party support this so-called "Enabling Act," which would grant Hitler's government the power to decree laws without a vote in parliament for a four-year period. Communist and many Socialist opponents were arrested before the vote. In the end, only the remaining Socialists oppose the measure. The bill passes. Hitler soon outlaws all political parties in Germany--except the Nazi party.

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/nrulechr.htm

WOW... what evidence.  All the parties supported the same act.  That is dynamite right there.  Why not look at the list of priests and nuns who were killed by the Nazis instead?  Keep drinking the Kool-aid

You're excusing the people who gave Hitler dictatorial powers? That's sad.

Ummm... no.  What I was saying is that everyone did it, so that really proves absolutly nothing.  Even Bismark supported this move and he hated Hitler.

Every member of the Social Democrats in the Weimar voted against the Enabling Act. The communists also opposed it, although most couldn't vote because they were already in jail. The Communists and the Socialists always opposed Hitler from day one, all the way.

[12th Doctor]

The church didn't oppose the Nazis.

Partisan Democrats certainly do include jFraud and this is evidenced by his continual posts trying to bag every and any Republican.

I back up what I say with evidence, unlike a lot of the Republicans. 

Doth I see a contradiction?  Me thinks I do.

Hey, dumbsh**t, read here. He was so afraid of being seen pro-communist that he was afraid to condemn the nazis.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html


I love it when members of the Liar party always claim I'm wrong, and it turns out that since they are a Liar, they are wrong.

I would suggest that you take a look at this post and the ones directly following.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=20462.30

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Ummm... no.  What I was saying is that everyone did it, so that really proves absolutly nothing.  Even Bismark supported this move and he hated Hitler.

What do you mean everyone did it? The two left of center parties, the Communist and Socialist parties strong opposed it.   the rest of the parties, they ed up big time.

[12th Doctor]

Please produce better lies than claiming the Catholic Center Party supported Hitler. Make them lies at least some people would be dumb enough to believe, well, aside from your communist-addled selves.

Hey, dummy, next time you call out someone on a lie, you might want to check to see whether they're right first. Typical lying Republican.



MARCH 23, 1933
THE REICHSTAG (GERMAN PARLIAMENT) VOTES LEGISLATIVE POWER TO HITLER

After the failure of the Nazi party to win a majority in parliament, Adolf Hitler introduces a bill that would give his government legislative authority. The Nazis, the Conservatives, and the Catholic Center Party support this so-called "Enabling Act," which would grant Hitler's government the power to decree laws without a vote in parliament for a four-year period. Communist and many Socialist opponents were arrested before the vote. In the end, only the remaining Socialists oppose the measure. The bill passes. Hitler soon outlaws all political parties in Germany--except the Nazi party.

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/nrulechr.htm

WOW... what evidence.  All the parties supported the same act.  That is dynamite right there.  Why not look at the list of priests and nuns who were killed by the Nazis instead?  Keep drinking the Kool-aid

You're excusing the people who gave Hitler dictatorial powers? That's sad.

Ummm... no.  What I was saying is that everyone did it, so that really proves absolutly nothing.  Even Bismark supported this move and he hated Hitler.

Every member of the Social Democrats in the Weimar voted against the Enabling Act. The communists also opposed it, although most couldn't vote because they were already in jail. The Communists and the Socialists always opposed Hitler from day one, all the way.

And since there wer two of them that doesn't really matter much, does it?  All the main stream parties were more affraid of a civil war than they were Hitler.  They were fools for being so and doing so.  They thought that they would always be able to get power back once the situation had cleared up.  They were wrong.  I fail to see how that demonstrates support of Hitler or even complacency.

[12th Doctor]

^^^^^^

What do you mean everyone did it? The two left of center parties, the Communist and Socialist parties strong opposed it.  f**ck the rest of the parties, they f**cked up big time.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

So you agree the Socialists and Communists were the best and bravest people in 1930s Germany and everyone should've followed their lead?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Every member of the Social Democrats in the Weimar voted against the Enabling Act. The communists also opposed it, although most couldn't vote because they were already in jail. The Communists and the Socialists always opposed Hitler from day one, all the way.

People must have been turned off by the Anyone But Hitler movement.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=20462.30

Do you mean the first one on that page? What's so special about that post?

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

I have little doubt that even with hindsight, most Republicans here would say that they would NOT vote for the Communists or Socialists in 1930s Germany, since they would never vote for Communists or Socialists. Maybe some will prove me wrong. Any Republicans here agree they were the best 2 parties at the time?

[12th Doctor]

I'm pointing out that a very high number of Catholics were pro-Nazi. Complete list:

Vichy government in France
Rexists in Belgium
government of Italy
Puppet government of Slovakia
Ustase
government of Hungary
Franco's Spain

Would Kach, who are Jewish fascists, side with the Nazis just because both are fascists? Of course not. Yet Catholic fascists had no problems doing so.

WOW... a bunch of facist dictatorships.  Since you can't be a Catholic and a Facist and the people have no say in a dictatorship and half of those dictatotships were impossed by the Nazis, I fail to see that you have any point at all.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

And since there wer two of them that doesn't really matter much, does it?  All the main stream parties were more affraid of a civil war than they were Hitler.  They were fools for being so and doing so.  They thought that they would always be able to get power back once the situation had cleared up.  They were wrong.  I fail to see how that demonstrates support of Hitler or even complacency.

I don't consider Hitler supporting parties to be mainstream, but yeah, as I said they ed up seriously by supporting him. You don't vote to give a madman more power unless you really want him to have more power. They were freedom hating idiots. There's no evidence that the Communist party was actually behind the Reichstag fire.

[12th Doctor]

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=20462.30

Do you mean the first one on that page? What's so special about that post?

Scroll down to my first post on that page.

[AuH2O]

So calling yourself Catholic makes it so?

jfern is either incredibly stupid, which is fairly likely, or simply unable to see basic reason. Rather elementary institutional theory can disprove his nonsense, let alone things like history and facts.

[12th Doctor]

And since there wer two of them that doesn't really matter much, does it?  All the main stream parties were more affraid of a civil war than they were Hitler.  They were fools for being so and doing so.  They thought that they would always be able to get power back once the situation had cleared up.  They were wrong.  I fail to see how that demonstrates support of Hitler or even complacency.

I don't consider Hitler supporting parties to be mainstream, but yeah, as I said they f**cked up seriously by supporting him. You don't vote to give a madman more power unless you really want him to have more power. They were freedom hating idiots. There's no evidence that the Communist party was actually behind the Reichstag fire.

WOW... open a history book.  You obviously have no idea what so ever how any of this came about.

Also, of course we now know that they were not behind it, but that was not the case at the time.