Religion

[migrendel]

The reason why Europe's constitution doesn't mention God is because it is pointless to unnecessarily offend people in a religiously pluralistic group of societies. As for your return of Christ and existence of God ideas, I'd like to see the proof to warrant inclusion in the European Constitution.

[migrendel]

As much as I admire your steadfast faith in God, I would merely like proof of His existence. One would think proof of something is a rather basic requirement for inclusion in a legal document.

[migrendel]

The thing, Mr. Fresh, is that I can't, anymore so than Christopher Michael can't prove His existence. I do find it unlikely however, considering that science is accounting for more and more of what was attributed to Godly handiwork. For example, many say that the intricate way things work in the natural world is because of God. We know that everything from cells to people were once different and less efficient, so isn't it logical that millions of years of natural selection could have eventually gotten things to work the way they're supposed to? In conclusion, I'm not so presumptuous as to say definitively that God doesn't exist. That would gravely overestimate my deductive skills. But I can say that to say that God exists, absent the significant body of evidence present that suggests that science was its own handmaiden, is even more blind and unreasonable than the assertions of staunch Atheists.

[migrendel]

You may believe, in a personal sense, whatever you want. But don't you think that you should at least acknowledge the fact that it can't be proved for the purposes of the Constitution, and that it isn't at all germane to the functions of a European government?

[migrendel]

First, I'd like to say that those three Gs (God, gays, and guns), jravnsbo, have led to their fair shares of interesting discussions over the time I've been a member. While I used to be an atheist, I find agnosticism more philosophically sound at present. I do not believe that the theistic argument of proving God has been proved, nor do I think anything directly refuting His existence has come up yet. As for Dean's Congregationalism, I think it reveals a deep divide in the Christian community. Some people believe that the faithful can really communicate with God. Others follow the theological lead of Karl Barth, a Swiss Calvinist that believed that God was totally unknowable, except through His revelations, the time of which, incidentally, are of his choosing. Since the positions seem to be a dividing line of more reformed against more evangelical churches, I suppose this is one of the dividing lines of Liberal v. Conservative Christianity. I do not believe I am qualified to be an important observer of this debate, but I will say one thing. Whatever you believe, from Calvinism to Catholicism to Judaism to Islam to Buddhism to Atheism, follow it faithfully. Believe in what you believe, and you are a good way toward being a person of integrity.

[migrendel]

To jravnsbo:
I would only believe in such a thing if my heart was completely satisfied that it was true. I don't wish to be a half-hearted folllower.

[migrendel]

To Realpolitik:
I'm sorry for being vague. I meant Calvinism in the modern evangelical sense, rather than the reformationist Calvinist doctrine.
To jravnsbo:
I would venture to say people are gay in Sweden despite the beautiful Scandinavian women because of the gorgeous Scandinavian men.

[migrendel]

I understand your humor, jravnsbo. I tried an approach that I thought was humorous. I suppose I have to admit you're right, jravnsbo. That's why I rarely involve myself in the often serpentine discussions of homosexuality. I don't know how fair minded I can be.

[migrendel]

I'm aware of the variation of looks amongst your people. After all, I've seen pictures of certain members of your royal family.

[migrendel]

I'll admit that our Presidential family is pretty bad looking. And speaking in comparison to the royal families of Great Britain (excepting Prince William) and the Netherlands (excepting Willem Alexander), your royal family isn't that bad looking. Queen Silvia was quite attractive in her day.

[migrendel]

I think your hair-raisingly literal interpretation of agnosticism is unwarranted. I don't mean to thrust a solipsistic viewpoint into the fray, nor posit in favor of Hume's theory, even though I think it has its merits, but I will say that I meant agnosticism to mean the state in which one does not believe the evidence or contradiction of God's existence to be strong enough to say definitively in favor of either position. I hope this clears it up.

[migrendel]

A position of neutrality. I don't see why we need have this discussion. I don't ask you to justify your religious beliefs. I accept them. I may oppose them when you inject them into matters of policy, but beyond that, I learned to live with them.