Germany: SPD Minister-President wants to turn his Land into a theocracy
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  Germany: SPD Minister-President wants to turn his Land into a theocracy
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Question: Is a reference to God in the constitution necessary in your opinion?
#1
Yes.
 
#2
No.
 
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Total Voters: 46

Author Topic: Germany: SPD Minister-President wants to turn his Land into a theocracy  (Read 4731 times)
solarstorm
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« on: September 13, 2014, 07:26:37 AM »
« edited: September 13, 2014, 07:56:33 AM by solarstorm »

In Schleswig-Holstein, a special committee is currently working on a reform of the State's constitution. Controversy has been aroused over a word in the new preamble: The CDU calls for a reference to God. Members of the SPD and the Greens have launched an initiative against it.

Leading Schleswig-Holstein politicians of the SPD and the Greens oppose a reference to God in the future state constitution via an initiative. "We see no need for such a religious amendment", it is written in the statement "A Constitution for all", which has now been published on the Internet. In the current state constitution no such formulation can be found so far.

The planned reform of the preamble should include a broad set of values ​​based on human values​​, human rights, peace and justice. Such a text has been drafted by a bipartisan special committee of the Landtag. A counter-proposal of the CDU faction, however, calls for the passage: "in responsibility before God".

On the other hand, the initiative to stop the reference to God rejects this and refers to the majority of the other German state constitutions and on constitutions in Scandinavia, which would dispense with a reference to God. "A growing number of people in Schleswig-Holstein identify themselves with no religion and could feel excluded."

Among the 30 signatories there are several Green and Social Democratic members of the Landtag. Even Lübeck Mayor Bernd Saxe (SPD) and Green Party state chairwoman Ruth Kastner support the initiative.

Minister-President Torsten Albig (SPD) and SPD faction leader Ralf Stegner advocate a reference to God, though. During a Landtag session in July Albig declared it as "unthinkable" to dispense with a reference to God. "The vast majority of people in this State ascribe themselves to something higher."

It is irrelevant whether they are Christians, Muslims or Jews or members of other denominations. "I'm going to canvass broad support for this. This is about the avowal of acting in the awareness of responsibility before God and the men."

The reference to God will not to be decided on before the vote on the new constitution in the fall. For this purpose a two-third majority in the Landtag would be necessary, but is considered unlikely.

In a straw poll within the SPD parliamentary group about half of the members were for it and half against it, faction spokeswoman Petra Groom said on Thursday. Also within the Greens, the Pirates and the FDP there is considerable resistance. In contrast, the CDU parliamentary group supports a reference to God unanimously.

With the reform of the constitution, referenda are to be held more easily thanks to lower quorums and ensuring digital privacy is to be enshrined as a national objective. The schools of the Danish minority will be ensured as well as inclusion. For the reform as a whole a solid majority is expected. CDU, SPD, Greens, FDP and SSW have signaled their yea; the Pirates want to consult their members.

Source



Facts about Schleswig-Holstein:
  • northernmost state of Germany, common border with Denmark
  • one of the flattest, smallest and least populous states (population of Nevada)
  • only German state with two costs
  • Its Minister-President is Torsten Albig (SPD).
  • It has been governed by a coalition of SPD, Greens and the Danish/Frisian minority party SSW since 2012.
  • While Albig is considered a moderate, Stegner is one of the staunchest left-wing Social Democrats in the FRG.
  • Everybody wants to vacation there, but nobody wants to live there.
  • Just imagine North Dakota bordering both the Pacific and the Atlantic Ocean.

Moreover: Only 7 German states, i.e. a bare minority, have a reference to God in their constitutions. And so does the Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany.

Religious affiliation of the Schleswig-Holsteinians:
  • 53% Protestants
  • 6% Catholics
  • 3% Muslims
  • 0.06% Jews
  • 38% unaffiliated


Torsten AlbigRalf Stegner
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2014, 07:33:09 AM »

Disgusting. I wouldn't have imagined Germany was so backwards in this regard.
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solarstorm
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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2014, 07:34:06 AM »

Disgusting. I wouldn't have imagined Germany was so backwards in this regard.

QFT
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Franzl
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2014, 07:49:50 AM »

I'm pretty neutral on this. In principle, I wouldn't support doing it, but it's not something to get worked up about.
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ingemann
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 08:06:32 AM »

I'm pretty neutral on this. In principle, I wouldn't support doing it, but it's not something to get worked up about.
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solarstorm
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2014, 08:16:12 AM »

I agree with the SPD leadership that a reference to God should be added (or kept?) into the constitution.

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windjammer
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2014, 09:21:40 AM »

Great news!!!!
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 09:37:40 AM »

I'm pretty neutral on this. In principle, I would support doing it, but it's not something to get worked up about.
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solarstorm
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 09:42:58 AM »

I think the best solution to this would be a referendum.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 09:44:02 AM »

Opposed to this idea.

God/Religion should stay out of politics and the constitution.
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 10:41:40 AM »

I'm pretty neutral on this. In principle, I wouldn't support doing it, but it's not something to get worked up about.
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 11:14:56 AM »

I don't support this idea either, but what a stupid, clickbait-y thread title.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 12:40:40 PM »

I don't support this idea either, but what a stupid, clickbait-y thread title.

Indeed.

Also, things would be much better if politicians focused on creating a culture conducive to moral conduct than fighting over these symbolic references in a land of <10% church attendance.
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ingemann
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 01:18:59 PM »

I think the best solution to this would be a referendum.

Yes let one of Western Germany's poorest Länder waste money, time and publicity on a referendrum which everybody know will end with a Yay and less than half voting and will serve nothing except making people even more tired of politics than they are.
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Franzl
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 01:24:11 PM »

I think the best solution to this would be a referendum.

Yes let one of Western Germany's poorest Länder waste money, time and publicity on a referendrum which everybody know will end with a Yay and less than half voting and will serve nothing except making people even more tired of politics than they are.

And I'd also prefer to keep these American style moral issues out of the general political discourse. It's bad enough that it's turning into a debate. It'd be even worse if a referendum campaign had to be conducted.
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2014, 01:33:39 PM »

I never understand why people are so obsessed with meaningless guff like this.

If the CDU are so desperate to put it in the constitution, that could be good leverage for the SPD. They could say, "we'll put god in the damn thing; if you guys allow us to put some crap we want in there!". A win-win for the left.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2014, 02:04:32 PM »


Seriously? Roll Eyes
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GaussLaw
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2014, 02:43:41 PM »

I don't support this idea either, but what a stupid, clickbait-y thread title.

Indeed.

Also, things would be much better if politicians focused on creating a culture conducive to moral conduct than fighting over these symbolic references in a land of <10% church attendance.
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solarstorm
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2014, 02:53:53 PM »

I don't support this idea either, but what a stupid, clickbait-y thread title.

Yeah, I want to be doing an editorial traineeship with BILD. Tongue
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windjammer
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2014, 02:54:57 PM »


Yes?
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Cassius
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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2014, 04:06:45 PM »

This is, of course, very good.

I don't support this idea either, but what a stupid, clickbait-y thread title.

Indeed.

Also, things would be much better if politicians focused on creating a culture conducive to moral conduct than fighting over these symbolic references in a land of <10% church attendance.

Ah, but the symbolic things are the foundations upon which a Christian society can be built. The little gestures; alluding to God in constitutions and legal documents, naming streets after Saints, prayer and hyms in schools, the odd reference to God in science classes; it is these little things that can create a society where Christianity is taken seriously. Its no good trying to preach moral behaviour if the people your preaching to are totally ignorant of what is being preached, and it is through these little gestures that people grow to understand, and be more comfortable with, what is being preached.
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2014, 04:43:24 PM »

the odd reference to God in science classes

Huh
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MaxQue
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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2014, 08:42:08 PM »


Stopping teaching the evolution heresy.
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Hifly
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« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2014, 01:03:08 AM »

Unfortunately my previous post in this thread was deleted for no reason.

This is great news!! I wholly support the SPD leadership in their quest to include a reference to God in the constitution. Germany is a Christian nation, and if the Greens and FDP cannot recognise this and throw hissy fits over this then I see no other option for them but to emigrate to a different country.

I hope the FDP loses all its seats in the next election (which will probably happen at the rate things are going).

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solarstorm
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« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2014, 07:13:51 AM »

I think the best solution to this would be a referendum.

Yes let one of Western Germany's poorest Länder waste money, time and publicity on a referendrum which everybody know will end with a Yay and less than half voting and will serve nothing except making people even more tired of politics than they are.

Why do you think a referendum would end with a yea?
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