Allowing non-citizens to vote

[dunn]

Yes Migrendel is right, allow non citizens to vote. That way one party could have thousands of non-citizens brought over to vote for their party. Oh, wait, the democrats did that in 2000.

Is that a fact?

[Gustaf]

Yes Migrendel is right, allow non citizens to vote. That way one party could have thousands of non-citizens brought over to vote for their party. Oh, wait, the democrats did that in 2000.

Is that a fact?

To Republicans anyway...

[dunn]

Yes Migrendel is right, allow non citizens to vote. That way one party could have thousands of non-citizens brought over to vote for their party. Oh, wait, the democrats did that in 2000.

Is that a fact?

To Republicans anyway...

[Apostle]

We shouldn't allow non-citizens to vite because it only gives them more reasons to sneak into the country and take jobs away from acual citizens.

[KEmperor]

We shouldn't allow non-citizens to vite because it only gives them more reasons to sneak into the country and take jobs away from acual citizens.

The jobs that illegals take are not ones that citizens usually want.  The regulations on immigration should be relaxed, I support immigration, it is good for the economy.  However, non-citizens have no right to vote, nor should they.

[??????????]

We shouldn't allow non-citizens to vite because it only gives them more reasons to sneak into the country and take jobs away from acual citizens.

The jobs that illegals take are not ones that citizens usually want.  The regulations on immigration should be relaxed, I support immigration, it is good for the economy.  However, non-citizens have no right to vote, nor should they.

Regular citizens don't want these jobs? No, I strongly disagree with that. I know quite a few "legals" who work picking fruit for a living. It's that most of the ones who don't are intimidated by the illegals. The only reason the illegal situation isn't being taken care of in this state is because the strawberry and orange farmers have the politicians in their back pocket NOT to do anything. They need to tighten up immigration and stop illegals from coming, especially in this time of terrorism. I saw on T.V. a story about a border guard who works in Texas, and on several occassions him and his officers have found Muslim "prayer" rugs. I don't think Mexicans are using "prayer" rugs.

[KEmperor]

These are two different issues.  Border security is bad, and should be tightened.  But it would help if it was easier for those people who are honestly just looking for jobs to get here legally and work for a living.  Then maybe it would be easier to catch the Islamic terrorists trying to get in.

[??????????]

As long as they are required to learn English as their primary language I have no problem with making it a little easier to get here.

[zorkpolitics]

At first glance, it may seem a long shot in an era of orange alerts and stepped-up border patrols. But quietly and carefully, elected officials, labor unions and community groups are starting to push the notion of allowing legal immigrants who are not United States citizens to vote in New York City elections.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/08VOTE.html

[Chiahead]

That is just wrong.  On that standard anyone visiting the United States from any country could vote.  Welcome to America...now to participate in American Culture, vote for your fav. canidate.  Have no idea who to vote for?  Just pick one.  You don't speak english?  Just fill in here.  

We could also set up an absentee ballot system for other countries like England or France to be fair to all those who don't get to vote or are regular visistors of our country.

It's a vote for the United States and only citizens should vote for this.

If you are an illegal immigrant, why would you vote anyway?  thanks for voting, now let's talk about deportation.

[Platypus]

i stand by my vote-for-cash sceme, where nn-US citizens bid for a vote in the US. an emrican citizen who doesnt know who to vote for cretaes a pol, on ebay, and the rotw citizens viote for it. The american then photographs himself casting a vote for the candidate, and the money is sent to him.

Totally immoral, but it is the only way that people from outside the Us will have any say on who the US president is. lets face it, he is the world leader.

[migrendel]

I feel this is a step forward. I am proud that my home city already has such a policy in place, and recognizes that non-citizens have something to add to the political discourse.

[© tweed]

I feel this is a step forward. I am proud that my home city already has such a policy in place, and recognizes that non-citizens have something to add to the political discourse.

You're such a commie

[English]

Sorry, I'm a raving liberal, but there is NO way on earth non-citizens should be allowed to vote. Why on earth should they? I'd be pretty upset if some recently arrived Moroccan immigrant could vote in UK elections. Being able to participate in democratic elections is a right given only to people who are fully fledged citizens, not fly by night transients or holidaymakers! How ridiculous.

[© tweed]

They shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[platypeanArchcow]

Immigration is an issue that concerns me closely, as I myself will not be a citizen when I reach voting age.  I don't think non-citizens should be able to vote.  However, I think the immigration process should be streamlined.  As it stands, instead of the five years mandated by law, my family will have been in this country for 12 years before we are able to even apply for citizenship.  For 5 years, my father had an H-1 visa (for foreign workers, if you don't know).  After we applied for permanent residency, we had to wait two years for the request to be processed and for an appointment at an INS office that would let us become permanent residents.  One can only apply for citizenship after 5 years of permanent residency.  In a year, we will be eligible, but I'm not sure if it's possible for a minor to go through the procedure, especially since I don't think my parents want to become citizens, so I will have to wait for another year to apply.

However, the process for issuing visas is much more ridiculous.  The US authorities seem paranoid about visitors staying in the country as illegal immigrants, so much that relatives of immigrants, if they are between ages 20 and 50 or so, are often denied visas.

The INS (or whatever its successor is called) should be streamlined and its decisions made more rational.  Anyone who has been in the country for five years should be able to become a citizen.

[??????????]

Immigration is an issue that concerns me closely, as I myself will not be a citizen when I reach voting age.  I don't think non-citizens should be able to vote.  However, I think the immigration process should be streamlined.  As it stands, instead of the five years mandated by law, my family will have been in this country for 12 years before we are able to even apply for citizenship.  For 5 years, my father had an H-1 visa (for foreign workers, if you don't know).  After we applied for permanent residency, we had to wait two years for the request to be processed and for an appointment at an INS office that would let us become permanent residents.  One can only apply for citizenship after 5 years of permanent residency.  In a year, we will be eligible, but I'm not sure if it's possible for a minor to go through the procedure, especially since I don't think my parents want to become citizens, so I will have to wait for another year to apply.

However, the process for issuing visas is much more ridiculous.  The US authorities seem paranoid about visitors staying in the country as illegal immigrants, so much that relatives of immigrants, if they are between ages 20 and 50 or so, are often denied visas.

The INS (or whatever its successor is called) should be streamlined and its decisions made more rational.  Anyone who has been in the country for five years should be able to become a citizen.

I agree it is to strict in SOME aspects. However, as my grandmother and her family had to go through this. I think that the incoming immigrants should be required to have a working knowledge of English. They should be required to pass physicals and general health exams. They should have a quick test run to make sure no dangerous communicable diseases exist in their body. Illegal immigrants should be granted no amnesty and should be immediately deported.

[ijohn57s]

Allow non-citizens to vote?

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

and by the way,

NO!

[cwelsch]

I think immigration is great, but this is just completely open to fraud and misconduct.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Did you ever stop and wonder why? Why would they take that risk with a naturalization procedure? I shall tell you why. The naturalization process is complicated. It is contigent upon a test administered in English, a language few from Mexico speak, and that's assuming they can read and write. You may rebut with a statement that they should just learn English. As someone who has taught themself two languages, I can tell you it isn't easy for the most able. If you're not the most gifted person, it's even more arduous. If you will reasonably simlplify the process, you will acquire some validity. If not, one can point to the many walls that prevent those who wish to be citizens.

I don't know what ancestry you are from migrendel, but mine came here and they didn't speak a lick of English.  They took the test, they went in legally.  I'm sorry, but that's simply the way it is, you want to be a citizen, you have to follow the rules.  SIMPLE.

This sounds like a silly idea to me. Why should non-citizens be able to vote? I know I wouldn't be happy if the French or Germans could vote in UK elections. It's a ludicrous idea.

Thank you.  

In Sweden there is more slack in local elections than in national ones. Does any of your countries have differences between different elections in this matter? Also, in our recent referendum, foreign citizens were allowed to vote because the politicians judged they were more likely to vote for the *right* option, thus improving the chances of a correct outcome. Isn't that often a reason for different opinions in these matters?

Unfortunately you are quite correct.

If the illegal immigrants were voting Republican rather than Democrat, migrendel and associates would have fits about them voting.

[John Dibble]

I don't have time to read this entire thing, but here's my opinion.

If you immigrate here legally and become a citizen, you can vote. If you immigrate here illegally you need to be kicked out of the country. If you're not going to take the time and effort needed to get here the legal way, I question your work ethic. I might make an exception for Cuban refugees, since they are sneaking out of a country that won't let them leave, so long as they work hard for a couple years and prove themselves valuable members of society.

[Bogart]

No, non-citizens should not be allowed to vote. Yeah, we give them healthcare and education benefits.  This is for our own good as well as theirs. The right to vote is the most powerful embodiment of our citizenship. Not only should we not allow them to vote, but we should be doing a lot more to keep those who choose to enter the country illegally out.

[zorkpolitics]

BTW, illegal immigrants are a benefit to Democratic Presidential candidates.  

Congressional seats (and therefor Electoral Votes) are awarded based on population (both legal and illegal).   Its estimated the NY and CA have about 10 extra Electoral Votes because of resident illegals.  Thus if Kerry wins by less than 10 EV, it will, in part, be due non-citizens.

[Bogart]

BTW, illegal immigrants are a benefit to Democratic Presidential candidates.  

Congressional seats (and therefor Electoral Votes) are awarded based on population (both legal and illegal).   Its estimated the NY and CA have about 10 extra Electoral Votes because of resident illegals.  Thus if Kerry wins by less than 10 EV, it will, in part, be due non-citizens.

Seats are apportioned by the census.  Does this actually count non-citizens in an official sense?

[KEmperor]

BTW, illegal immigrants are a benefit to Democratic Presidential candidates.  

Congressional seats (and therefor Electoral Votes) are awarded based on population (both legal and illegal).   Its estimated the NY and CA have about 10 extra Electoral Votes because of resident illegals.  Thus if Kerry wins by less than 10 EV, it will, in part, be due non-citizens.

Seats are apportioned by the census.  Does this actually count non-citizens in an official sense?

I dont think so, although I am not 100% sure about that.  But it would discount his theory, which is way too high for NY anyway.  No way are there enough illegals here to count for 10 EVS!