Taliban vs. USSR

[dazzleman]

Does anyone honestly believe the Soviet Union could've lasted through the 90s?

BRTD, you're the type of person who, back then, would have been extolling the superiority of the Soviet system, and saying that our collapse was inevitable.  Back then, you would have thought the Soviets were the wave of the future.  Trust me.  I know your type.  You have little credibility on this issue.

[The Duke]

No surprise that someone with three Communist revolutionary leaders in his sig would have had us take a soft approach with the USSR.  I support the guy who has anti-Soviet Pope John Paul II in his sig, thanks.

It really wouldn't have mattered how hard you banged your drums, they were already faltering.

Does anyone honestly believe the Soviet Union could've lasted through the 90s?

That's just ignorant.  Almost everyone who was alive back then or has studied the period in a serious way, not punkass college kids who wear Che shirts because they think it makes then a "revolutionary" and it gets them hippy pussy, but serious people who know what they're talking about, laugh at this notion.

The US was in a crapper in 1980, the USSR was on the move.  If you really want to go debate who was stronger in 1980, go for it.  There's a reason the 1980 hockey game was burned into the American psyche, and it ain't cause we thought we had the Cold War in the bag.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It doesn't really matter what people like me thought back then since that's just making assumptions.

The facts are, I would never support an armed Muslim group ever. Period. Arming Muslims is always wrong. Look at all the Islam-loving Republicans here. Allah loves Republicans.

[The Duke]

All gods love Republicans, since they identify with our moral and intellectual superiority over our opposition.

What's your sudden hatred of Islam?

[phk]

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Whats wrong with taking a stance against the enemy of peace?

[Jake]

Does anyone honestly believe the Soviet Union could've lasted through the 90s?

If Andropov had lasted longer, and the reforms had not happened, the USSR could last into the 90s given a strong successor to Andropov.

[dazzleman]

Does anyone honestly believe the Soviet Union could've lasted through the 90s?

If Andropov had lasted longer, and the reforms had not happened, the USSR could last into the 90s given a strong successor to Andropov.

Also, if the Democrats or even the more moderate wing of the Republican party had been in power in the US, rather than Ronald Reagan, the west probably would have effectively saved the Soviet Union from its economic collapse.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

All gods love Republicans, since they identify with our moral and intellectual superiority over our opposition.

What's your sudden hatred of Islam?

I was at a family reunion at my aunt's church when I noticed some grafitti on it, when I asked her about it she said it was probably vandalism by Somali gangs that like to attack Christian targets. And then I realized how much Muslims love to butcher Christians and Jews. We don't do the same to them. I haven't vandalized a mosque. I've never flown planes into important buildings of a Muslim country. I also don't kill girls in my family who I consider a dishonor. It's pretty obvious that Islam is fatally flawed since it's always the Muslims starting the problems with Jews and Christians.

[Jake]

LOL, what a close minded person.

[phk]

All gods love Republicans, since they identify with our moral and intellectual superiority over our opposition.

What's your sudden hatred of Islam?

I was at a family reunion at my aunt's church when I noticed some grafitti on it, when I asked her about it she said it was probably vandalism by Somali gangs that like to attack Christian targets. And then I realized how much Muslims love to butcher Christians and Jews. We don't do the same to them. I haven't vandalized a mosque. I've never flown planes into important buildings of a Muslim country. I also don't kill girls in my family who I consider a dishonor. It's pretty obvious that Islam is fatally flawed since it's always the Muslims starting the problems with Jews and Christians.

I agree, Islam has fundamental flaws that cannot be fixed.

[ATFFL]

The US was in a crapper in 1980, the USSR was on the move.  If you really want to go debate who was stronger in 1980, go for it.  There's a reason the 1980 hockey game was burned into the American psyche, and it ain't cause we thought we had the Cold War in the bag.

The Battle of Lake Placid:  A stunning upset which reversed the fortunes of the two main participants in the Cold War.  Though it had little direct impact on the socio-economic or military-industrial conditions of either nation The Battle of Lake Placid had a tremendous impact on the morale of the American nation and shattered the myth of Soviet invincibility that was developing.  Ronald Reagan would capitalize on the change in attitude and launch a military expansion that the Soviets could not match.   Combined with the Space Defense Initiative (See: The Battle of the Big Bluff.)  The final battles of the Cold War, the Battles of Perestroika and Glasnost, were a direct result of the changes in the nature and attitudes of the Cold War that were wrought by the Battle of Lake Placid.

[Soup18]

The Cold War was fought not with guns or even morale but with the laws of nature. The Berlin Wall, the race to the moon, China's defection to the market in 1978, the Solidarity movement, were all indicators of which side understood nature better. By the late 1970s, the Soviets had already lost. Thanks heavens Gorbachev didn't prolong the pain by trying to keep onto power. He is truly one of the world's greatest leaders. Reagan as well for his moral leadership and convincing Gorbachev to reform.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The Cold War was fought not with guns or even morale but with the laws of nature. The Berlin Wall, the race to the moon, China's defection to the market in 1978, the Solidarity movement, were all indicators of which side understood nature better. By the late 1970s, the Soviets had already lost. Thanks heavens Gorbachev didn't prolong the pain by trying to keep onto power. He is truly one of the world's greatest leaders. Reagan as well for his moral leadership and convincing Gorbachev to reform.

In 1980 about the only person who thought the USSR would fall soon was Senator Monyihan of NY.

[J. J.]

The Cold War was fought not with guns or even morale but with the laws of nature. The Berlin Wall, the race to the moon, China's defection to the market in 1978, the Solidarity movement, were all indicators of which side understood nature better. By the late 1970s, the Soviets had already lost. Thanks heavens Gorbachev didn't prolong the pain by trying to keep onto power. He is truly one of the world's greatest leaders. Reagan as well for his moral leadership and convincing Gorbachev to reform.

In 1980 about the only person who thought the USSR would fall soon was Senator Monyihan of NY.

I never new Monyihan (who I have a lot of respect for) said that.

I will add that in the early 1980's, anyone that talked to, including my father and a Russian culture instructor at my university, insisted that the USSR was going to dominate the world eventually.  They thought I was naive because I though that a robust US would hold up.

Nobody saw the breakup in 8-9 years.

[PBrunsel]

I will add that in the early 1980's, anyone that talked to, including my father and a Russian culture instructor at my university, insisted that the USSR was going to dominate the world eventually.  They thought I was naive because I though that a robust US would hold up.

Nobody saw the breakup in 8-9 years.

J.J. I have one thing to say about that:

Thank God for Ronald Reagan.

[J. J.]

I will add that in the early 1980's, anyone that talked to, including my father and a Russian culture instructor at my university, insisted that the USSR was going to dominate the world eventually.  They thought I was naive because I though that a robust US would hold up.

Nobody saw the breakup in 8-9 years.

J.J. I have one thing to say about that:

Thank God for Ronald Reagan.

Keep in mind that this was 18 months into the Reagan presidency.  I certainly didn't think that within 10 years, the Soviet Union would peacefully break up. 

My father was very liberal and my professor rather conservative.   While there were questions about true Soviet military strength, expecially training, it was thought to be stong enough to easily survive in the the next century.

My position was that both sides could hold out for decades, but that the West would eventually prevail, but to advanced technology produced by a free market.  That was thought to be "optimistic."

Even fictional accounts from the period never contemplated a peaceful breakup.  The closest was The Third World War:  August 1985 (1978) by Gen. Sir John Hackett, which depicted the Soviet nationalities revolting after a nuclear exchange.

I'd love to see a link to the Monyihan prediction; he might have been the only national politican to get it right.

[dazzleman]

I will add that in the early 1980's, anyone that talked to, including my father and a Russian culture instructor at my university, insisted that the USSR was going to dominate the world eventually.  They thought I was naive because I though that a robust US would hold up.

Nobody saw the breakup in 8-9 years.

J.J. I have one thing to say about that:

Thank God for Ronald Reagan.

Keep in mind that this was 18 months into the Reagan presidency.  I certainly didn't think that within 10 years, the Soviet Union would peacefully break up. 

My father was very liberal and my professor rather conservative.   While there were questions about true Soviet military strength, expecially training, it was thought to be stong enough to easily survive in the the next century.

My position was that both sides could hold out for decades, but that the West would eventually prevail, but to advanced technology produced by a free market.  That was thought to be "optimistic."

Even fictional accounts from the period never contemplated a peaceful breakup.  The closest was The Third World War:  August 1985 (1978) by Gen. Sir John Hackett, which depicted the Soviet nationalities revolting after a nuclear exchange.

I'd love to see a link to the Monyihan prediction; he might have been the only national politican to get it right.

All this is very true, and important to consider when listening to people who didn't live through the period blithely claim that the Soviets were clearly finished by the late 1970s.  If so, it was the best kept secret in the world at the time.  The US was tottering under the twin burden of economic problems and a political crisis of confidence and the Soviets, while experiencing economic problems, were successfully projecting their power around the world, and we were not.

Even if the breakup of the Soviet Union was foreordained by the backwardness of their system, the timing could have been different, and there were no guarantees that a desperate and cornered Soviet leadership would not have launched a war on the west in a last-ditch attempt to save their regime.