Abortion stance could haunt Casey in Senate bid

[Moooooo]

But like Santorum, Klink, and Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, who helped talk Casey into running, Casey opposes abortion rights. And that could give moderate Republicans in the important Philadelphia suburban swing region one less reason to cross party lines as they did in large numbers to help elect Rendell in 2002.

Casey is unlikely to avoid the abortion question even in the Democratic primary.

Despite Rendell's attempts to clean house, at least one candidate who favors abortion rights has vowed to compete against Casey in the primary — Charles F. "Chuck" Pennacchio, 45, a history professor at The University of the Arts in Philadelphia. A longtime Democratic organizer, Pennacchio has not run for office before but said his campaign has raised about $25,000 so far.

While Pennacchio's campaign is more about using the power of the Internet and low-key "meet-ups" with the candidate to promote grass roots activism within the party, a spokesman said Pennacchio definitely will raise the subject of abortion in the primary campaign.

"It's an issue that voters in the Democratic primary are concerned about," said the spokesman, Tim Tagaris, citing Senate Democrats' efforts to block judicial nominees who oppose abortion.

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 Ron Klink's experience is Bob Casey's bad dream.

Klink, a onetime TV news anchorman in Pittsburgh and a longtime congressman, lost the 2000 U.S. Senate race against Republican incumbent Rick Santorum after a campaign that failed for various reasons to gain traction. [...]

In the general election campaign, Klink said, national party leaders' promises of financial and field support failed to materialize. [...]

Klink said he was proud to be a "Casey Democrat" — a reference to Casey's father, the late governor, whose strong views made him a national hero to the anti-abortion movement. He bitterly recalled being portrayed as "Santorum Light" during the 2000 primary because of his abortion stance and blamed his defeat partly on Democrats who refused to vote for him for that reason.

http://www.pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-25/1112466480301810.xml&storylist=penn

[TeePee4Prez]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

[Keystone Phil]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

[TeePee4Prez]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

Yeah and do you understand we need pro-choice Republicans to vote against him along with the money that comes with it?

If I were to run personally, I would run pro-choice in ANY State House, Senate, or Congressional District because I know Union money would not be enough.  I would definitely need NARAL and Planned Parenthood dollars to put me over the top.  Now I know you're gonna say Brendan Boyle is pro-life.  Yes he is anti-choice, but he has many other things going for him.  I respect his views, but I think he might have done better as a pro-choicer.  Take a look at his district. 

[Keystone Phil]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

Yeah and do you understand we need pro-choice Republicans to vote against him along with the money that comes with it?

If I were to run personally, I would run pro-choice in ANY State House, Senate, or Congressional District because I know Union money would not be enough.  I would definitely need NARAL and Planned Parenthood dollars to put me over the top.  Now I know you're gonna say Brendan Boyle is pro-life.  Yes he is anti-choice, but he has many other things going for him.  I respect his views, but I think he might have done better as a pro-choicer.  Take a look at his district. 

Pro Life Democrats outnumber Pro Choice Republicans.

If you ran, you'd get crushed on the issue (in PA).

[TeePee4Prez]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

Yeah and do you understand we need pro-choice Republicans to vote against him along with the money that comes with it?

If I were to run personally, I would run pro-choice in ANY State House, Senate, or Congressional District because I know Union money would not be enough.  I would definitely need NARAL and Planned Parenthood dollars to put me over the top.  Now I know you're gonna say Brendan Boyle is pro-life.  Yes he is anti-choice, but he has many other things going for him.  I respect his views, but I think he might have done better as a pro-choicer.  Take a look at his district. 

Pro Life Democrats outnumber Pro Choice Republicans.

If you ran, you'd get crushed on the issue (in PA).

Pro-choice candidates have won statewide.  Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Rendell, Specter, Heinz, Ridge and Hafer are adamantly pro-choice and have won the state!  It has also been polled that the majority of Pennsylvanians are pro-choice, though only between 50 and 55%.  The GOP has one advantage over the Democrats in PA: Geography.  Republicans are more diluted so to speak over a larger land area.  This gives them more room the draft district lines and keep Democrats compressed in urban areas.  Most PA GOP CDs are around 30-45% Dem, while the Dem CDs are much less then that in the GOP column, the lone exception being PA 13 which has many Montgomery County RINOs who vote Democratic yet have it on paper to deal with their townships better.

My take on the pro-life/pro-choice argument locally:  I think pro-choicers are less vocal about their points of view than pro-lifers.  I'll even go as far as saying NE Philly is a pro-choice leaning area.  There are a lot of vocal Catholics opposed to abortion vehemently, but their voice is projected much more than the actual opinion of the majority.  Again I'd like to pull the Keystone Polls suggesting this.

[Keystone Phil]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

Yeah and do you understand we need pro-choice Republicans to vote against him along with the money that comes with it?

If I were to run personally, I would run pro-choice in ANY State House, Senate, or Congressional District because I know Union money would not be enough.  I would definitely need NARAL and Planned Parenthood dollars to put me over the top.  Now I know you're gonna say Brendan Boyle is pro-life.  Yes he is anti-choice, but he has many other things going for him.  I respect his views, but I think he might have done better as a pro-choicer.  Take a look at his district. 

Pro Life Democrats outnumber Pro Choice Republicans.

If you ran, you'd get crushed on the issue (in PA).

Pro-choice candidates have won statewide.  Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Rendell, Specter, Heinz, Ridge and Hafer are adamantly pro-choice and have won the state!  It has also been polled that the majority of Pennsylvanians are pro-choice, though only between 50 and 55%.  The GOP has one advantage over the Democrats in PA: Geography.  Republicans are more diluted so to speak over a larger land area.  This gives them more room the draft district lines and keep Democrats compressed in urban areas.  Most PA GOP CDs are around 30-45% Dem, while the Dem CDs are much less then that in the GOP column, the lone exception being PA 13 which has many Montgomery County RINOs who vote Democratic yet have it on paper to deal with their townships better.

My take on the pro-life/pro-choice argument locally:  I think pro-choicers are less vocal about their points of view than pro-lifers.  I'll even go as far as saying NE Philly is a pro-choice leaning area. 

I won't even address the Clinton, Gore, Kerry point. You know my take on Dems on a national level. Specter, Heinz, Ridge - look at their opponents. Pro Choicer vs. Pro Choicer.

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

[TeePee4Prez]

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

GERRYMANDERING!!!! GERRYMANDERING !!! GERRYMANDERING!!!  Oh and by the way, why did Perzel have to run tail between his ass out of Frankford and into Fox Chase.  You gotta love that spaghetti string north of Pennypack Park from Mayfair that moves west and drops south into Fox Chase, which even I'll admit is pretty conservative.  I'll also argue the hardcore anti-choicers got elected during the Reagan era and have parked themselves in office ever since.  Kenney and Taylor's retirements are a definite flip and O'Brien's is a highly probable flip.  Perzel would have been gone already if not for the gerrymander.

[Keystone Phil]

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

GERRYMANDERING!!!! GERRYMANDERING !!! GERRYMANDERING!!! 

Gerrymandering made McGeehan, Stack, Boyle, other NE Dems Pro Life?

[Jake]

Do you gentleman have a map of the area you are discussing, preferably with these house districts noted, so that us mere mortals can follow your debate?

[Keystone Phil]

Do you gentleman have a map of the area you are discussing, preferably with these house districts noted, so that us mere mortals can follow your debate?

PA 169 - O'BRIEN
PA 170 - KENNEY
PA 172 - PERZEL
PA 173 - McGEEHAN
PA 174 - BUTKOVITZ
PA 177 - TAYLOR


http://seventy.org/maps/mapimages/philahouse.pdf

[TeePee4Prez]

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

GERRYMANDERING!!!! GERRYMANDERING !!! GERRYMANDERING!!! 

Gerrymandering made McGeehan, Stack, Boyle, other NE Dems Pro Life?

Stack flip-flops right and left and Tartaglione is pro-choice.

[Keystone Phil]

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

GERRYMANDERING!!!! GERRYMANDERING !!! GERRYMANDERING!!! 

Gerrymandering made McGeehan, Stack, Boyle, other NE Dems Pro Life?

Stack flip-flops right and left and Tartaglione is pro-choice.

Tartaglione's district includes parts of NE Philly but more of it is around the Center City area.

You also avoided my point. Gerrymandering did not make many NE Dems Pro Life.

[TeePee4Prez]

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

GERRYMANDERING!!!! GERRYMANDERING !!! GERRYMANDERING!!! 

Gerrymandering made McGeehan, Stack, Boyle, other NE Dems Pro Life?

Stack flip-flops right and left and Tartaglione is pro-choice.

Tartaglione's district includes parts of NE Philly but more of it is around the Center City area.

You also avoided my point. Gerrymandering did not make many NE Dems Pro Life.

My old State Senator was Tina Tartaglione and she has a fair amount of NE Philly.  She is active at St. Martin of Tours and pro-choice.  Yes there are anti-choice NE Dems.

[Keystone Phil]

NE Philly is not Pro Choice leaning. Besides Butkovitz and Cohen, who are the prominent Pro Choice Dems in the NE Philly area?

GERRYMANDERING!!!! GERRYMANDERING !!! GERRYMANDERING!!! 

Gerrymandering made McGeehan, Stack, Boyle, other NE Dems Pro Life?

Stack flip-flops right and left and Tartaglione is pro-choice.

Tartaglione's district includes parts of NE Philly but more of it is around the Center City area.

You also avoided my point. Gerrymandering did not make many NE Dems Pro Life.

My old State Senator was Tina Tartaglione and she has a fair amount of NE Philly.  She is active at St. Martin of Tours and pro-choice.  Yes there are anti-choice NE Dems.

You continue to ignore the point. You said, in the one post, "GERRYMANDERING!!! GERRYMANDERING!!! GERRYMANDERING!!!" That had nothing to do with NE Dems turning Pro Life.

[Jake]

Do you gentleman have a map of the area you are discussing, preferably with these house districts noted, so that us mere mortals can follow your debate?

PA 169 - O'BRIEN
PA 170 - KENNEY
PA 172 - PERZEL
PA 173 - McGEEHAN
PA 174 - BUTKOVITZ
PA 177 - TAYLOR


http://seventy.org/maps/mapimages/philahouse.pdf

Good map, thanks

[Smash255]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

WHo are they going to vote for??  With Rendell at the top of the tiocket the Dems & Moderate Republicans in the Philly burbs will come out in strong numbers, they sure as hell aren't going to vote for Santorum

[Keystone Phil]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

WHo are they going to vote for??  With Rendell at the top of the tiocket the Dems & Moderate Republicans in the Philly burbs will come out in strong numbers, they sure as hell aren't going to vote for Santorum

I've said this a million times (I've come to the conclusion that you just have a hard time understanding): a third party candidate (a Libertarian, for example) could steal a good amount of votes.

[Smash255]

Simply put-  If the name is not Casey, the Democrat best better be pro-choice to win.  Because it's Casey, I think he'll be fine.

Don't you understand that you need a Pro Life Dem to keep many of the Dems from voting for Santorum?

WHo are they going to vote for??  With Rendell at the top of the tiocket the Dems & Moderate Republicans in the Philly burbs will come out in strong numbers, they sure as hell aren't going to vote for Santorum

I don't think so.  While they might not agree with Casey's Pro-Life stances, I think quite a few would be willing to vote for Casey just to get Santorum the hell out of there the ABS vote (Anybody but Santorum) and that vote will be for  Casey since they know the 3rd party won't win.  Kind of similar to why Nader didn't do nearly as well in 2004 as he did in 2000 even in the states he was on the ballot in, because of the strong ABB vote Kerry picked up

I've said this a million times (I've come to the conclusion that you just have a hard time understanding): a third party candidate (a Libertarian, for example) could steal a good amount of votes.

[Jake]

You overestimate the "ABS" vote.   30% of Pennsylvanians may have "ABS Syndrome". The rest DO NOT hate Santorum. If a Libertarian, Russ Diamond for example, ran, he would get a solid chunk of the vote. Betsy Summers got 2% with a libertarian candidate on the ballot. Diamond could get double that easily.

[Smash255]

You overestimate the "ABS" vote.   30% of Pennsylvanians may have "ABS Syndrome". The rest DO NOT hate Santorum. If a Libertarian, Russ Diamond for example, ran, he would get a solid chunk of the vote. Betsy Summers got 2% with a libertarian candidate on the ballot. Diamond could get double that easily.

Granted, but where the pro-life views Casey has that some say could hurt him the most is in SE PA, that is probably where a rather large chunk of the ABS vote in PA is. 

[Wakie]

In PA the Republicans have 3 issues that count for them.

1) Abortion.  Casey's pro-life though so this takes this card out of play.

2) Taxes.  Everyone always wants lower taxes.  More and more though people are beginning to understand that we NEED fiscal responsibility and the Republican Congress (one of whose top leaders is Rick Santorum) has demonstrated 0 fiscal responsibility.

3) Guns.  Rural PA likes its guns.  But lets be honest here, Bob Casey ain't Nancy Pelosi.

[Democratic Hawk]

In PA the Republicans have 3 issues that count for them.

1) Abortion.  Casey's pro-life though so this takes this card out of play.

2) Taxes.  Everyone always wants lower taxes.  More and more though people are beginning to understand that we NEED fiscal responsibility and the Republican Congress (one of whose top leaders is Rick Santorum) has demonstrated 0 fiscal responsibility.

3) Guns.  Rural PA likes its guns.  But lets be honest here, Bob Casey ain't Nancy Pelosi.

I, especially, like your point about taxes

Dave

[TeePee4Prez]

In PA the Republicans have 3 issues that count for them.

1) Abortion.  Casey's pro-life though so this takes this card out of play.

Hey i'll vote Casey over Santorum any day, any time, but I'm most worried about losing the support of Philly suburban pro-choice RINOs.  If you've seen the PA results for the 1980s, you'll see without the Philly burbs, we have less of a chance.

[Moooooo]

Hey i'll vote Casey over Santorum any day, any time, but I'm most worried about losing the support of Philly suburban pro-choice RINOs.  If you've seen the PA results for the 1980s, you'll see without the Philly burbs, we have less of a chance.

The key will be to keep Casey with Rendell as much as possible throughout the campaign.  If the pro-choice Republicans in the Philly suburbs see Casey with Rendell enough, Im sure most of them will be voting straight Rendell/Casey ticket.