For religious people only: Do you personally favor allowing female preachers?
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  For religious people only: Do you personally favor allowing female preachers?
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Author Topic: For religious people only: Do you personally favor allowing female preachers?  (Read 5567 times)
TDAS04
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« on: June 03, 2014, 11:37:31 AM »

Yes for me.  I would not consider joining a church where it's forbidden.
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 11:41:29 AM »

Same. Both sentences are also true for me. Non-negotiable.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2014, 11:52:45 AM »

No. While it isn't a huge issue for me, it serves as a useful litmus test. Just about every church I've attended that allowed female clergy had some other deal breaker involved.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2014, 11:55:20 AM »


The wife of a relative of mine is a minister in a Calvinist church.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2014, 12:02:28 PM »


Interesting. Do you they have a website? I wouldn't mind checking it out.
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GaussLaw
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2014, 01:10:39 PM »

Paul certainly wasn't big on the idea of female preachers, but that may largely have reflected their culture/demeanor of the time.

Personally, I think other theological issues are far more important.
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Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu
Nathan
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2014, 02:13:06 PM »

Yes. I understand the arguments against it but think they're utterly facile.

Paul seems to have been okay or not okay with it depending on the situation, the culture he was addressing, his mood, the specific women in question, the time of day...
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Free Speech Enjoyer
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2014, 02:20:34 PM »

Yes, and it is a litmus test for me.  I support a wholly egalitarian environment in the church structure irrespective of how the majority of Christian people felt on the issue back in the early days.
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politicus
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2014, 02:51:32 PM »
« Edited: June 04, 2014, 04:24:01 PM by politicus »

Yes for me.  I would not consider joining a church where it's forbidden.

This. I also wouldn't be in a congregation where the Minister refuse to shake hands with female colleagues and stuff like that.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 05:32:16 PM »

I could not for the life of me understand why anyone would think this was a bad idea, and could never see myself attending a church that did not allow for female religious officials.
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Never
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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 06:37:18 PM »

No. While it isn't a huge issue for me, it serves as a useful litmus test. Just about every church I've attended that allowed female clergy had some other deal breaker involved.

I feel the same way.

It's not the most important issue for me either, but I feel that the Bible is pretty clear that women aren't supposed to be in the pulpit. If we start wavering on the little things, then we could end up encountering threats to foundational beliefs. That doesn't mean that I don't think women are mentally capable of preaching, but I think there is a reason why women aren't supposed to preach, and I wouldn't go to a church that permitted female preachers.
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Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2014, 07:55:09 PM »
« Edited: June 03, 2014, 08:18:23 PM by asexual trans victimologist »

No. While it isn't a huge issue for me, it serves as a useful litmus test. Just about every church I've attended that allowed female clergy had some other deal breaker involved.

I feel the same way.

It's not the most important issue for me either, but I feel that the Bible is pretty clear that women aren't supposed to be in the pulpit. If we start wavering on the little things, then we could end up encountering threats to foundational beliefs. That doesn't mean that I don't think women are mentally capable of preaching, but I think there is a reason why women aren't supposed to preach, and I wouldn't go to a church that permitted female preachers.

In what capacities do you suppose Phoebe, Priscilla, Junia, Euodia, and Syntiche operated?
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RR1997
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 08:10:27 PM »

Of course
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CatoMinor
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 08:41:55 PM »

I don't mind female preachers, however in my experience, the churches I have been to with male preachers tend to be better overall. But that has nothing to do with gender, that is has more to do with the more progressive churches seem more likely to stray from the messages in scripture and go on social justice tangents. And to be fair I equally don't like it when conservative churches get off topic either or try to use the Bible to justify forcing on others their personal social-con views.

For me an ideal church should be open to male and female preachers, open to gay people, be spirit led (do not confuse with crazy snake dancers), show the Fruits of the Spirit, and not used by the pastor/priest as a platform to spread their political views.
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Never
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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 09:12:10 PM »
« Edited: June 03, 2014, 09:35:33 PM by Never »

No. While it isn't a huge issue for me, it serves as a useful litmus test. Just about every church I've attended that allowed female clergy had some other deal breaker involved.

I feel the same way.

It's not the most important issue for me either, but I feel that the Bible is pretty clear that women aren't supposed to be in the pulpit. If we start wavering on the little things, then we could end up encountering threats to foundational beliefs. That doesn't mean that I don't think women are mentally capable of preaching, but I think there is a reason why women aren't supposed to preach, and I wouldn't go to a church that permitted female preachers.

In what capacity do you suppose Phoebe, Priscilla, Junia, Euodia, and Syntiche operated?

-According to Romans 16:1-2, Pheobe was a servant of the church who was commended for helping people.

-Similarly, Priscilla was thanked by Paul in Romans 16:3 for some sort of life-risking work.

-First off, it is somewhat unclear whether Junia (or Junias) was a male or female, though it is most likely that Junia was a woman, and for the purposes of this discussion, I'll accept that view. Admittedly, she was listed as an apostle in Romans 16:7, but the position of apostle didn't necessarily have the same responsibilities as a pastor/elder. Even if we disregard that for a moment, the apostleship had other requirements that result in the conclusion that this position has ceased to exist in the modern church. Furthermore, there were no gender specific requirements for the office of apostle like the ones for pastors in 1 Timothy 3:1-12, which make it clear in many English translations (KJV/NKJV/NIV1984/ESV/NASB/HCSB/NLT) and the original Greek that men are supposed to hold the office of pastor. (EDIT: Since that first Greek text I included was the Textus Receptus, which has been superseded by other Greek texts, I'm also hyperlinking the Nestle-Aland Greek text of 1 Timothy 3, since it is more commonly relied on in modern Biblical scholarship. Both hyperlinked texts are interlinear, meaning you can read along for yourself in English, and honestly I think reading the original text is the best way to reach a conclusion on religious issues. The Bible is vastly superior than anything I could write.).

-Euodia and Syntiche were known for arguing with each other as outlined in Philippians 4:2-3, in which Paul wrote that they needed to settle their differences with God since they were Christian workers.

In short, it appears that none of the women that you listed can be seriously defined as pastors.
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2014, 09:26:53 PM »

My rabbi is a woman, so obviously yes.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2014, 07:27:47 AM »

Yes.  Although I'm more comfortable with male preachers, I would have no problem with women being ordained if they had the qualifications.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2014, 12:51:22 PM »

No. 
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Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2014, 01:12:53 PM »

No. While it isn't a huge issue for me, it serves as a useful litmus test. Just about every church I've attended that allowed female clergy had some other deal breaker involved.

I feel the same way.

It's not the most important issue for me either, but I feel that the Bible is pretty clear that women aren't supposed to be in the pulpit. If we start wavering on the little things, then we could end up encountering threats to foundational beliefs. That doesn't mean that I don't think women are mentally capable of preaching, but I think there is a reason why women aren't supposed to preach, and I wouldn't go to a church that permitted female preachers.

In what capacity do you suppose Phoebe, Priscilla, Junia, Euodia, and Syntiche operated?

-According to Romans 16:1-2, Pheobe was a servant of the church who was commended for helping people.

Specifically, she was a deacon. As in one of the Greek words used is literally διάκονος.

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She's also mentioned repeatedly in Acts, always working together with her husband Aquila, without their capacities being distinguished in any obvious way. In Acts 18.26 they tactfully take aside a preacher named Apollos and give him pointers on how to preach better.

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I'm aware of the slight ambiguity over Junia's sex so okay, point taken, moving on from that. Your distinction between the roles of apostle and pastor is noted (though it's also worth noting that in a Catholic context, discussion of women functioning as apostles makes the stated reasoning for an all-male priesthood start to fray a bit around the edges; however, from the terms you're using, am I correct in assuming you're Protestant?). Denis Fortin, who's a Seventh-Day Adventist theologian--and I know he's not alone in this--has posited that 1 Timothy 3.11 may be read as referring to female ministers as well as to the wives of ministers--the Greek doesn't make it especially easy to tell since the word used is just γυναῖκας--although the fact that γυναικὸς is used to mean 'wife' in the next verse does seem to lend support to the argument that it's used in the sense of 'wife' elsewhere in the passage as well. (But recall that even so this is defining qualifications for the office that Phoebe is explicitly stated to hold in Romans anyway.) (Thank you so much for linking to the Textus Receptus, by the way. I've been trying to find that online for a while now.)

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The relevant part being that he describes them as 'colleagues' in the same sorts of terms that he uses to describe men who were clearly serving in ministerial roles elsewhere in the Epistles, but you're right that that isn't necessarily conclusive. William Tyndale's New Testament constantly refers to all of these people as 'ministers' without any further elaboration. Obviously translations, even ones as puissant and ancient as Tyndale's, aren't as authoritative as the Greek text, but equally, it's hard to argue that always translating διάκονος 'deacon' or 'minister' when it refers to men but translating it differently in reference to Phoebe gives us an impartial presentation of what's meant.
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2014, 02:33:17 PM »

As Associate Pastors I believe they can. However I'm not sure scripture permits women to be lead pastors in their own right. As teachers, apostles (yes they still exist) prophets and evangelists women are often as influential as men. I've sat under women teachers and preachers but they were not in overall leadership of a local congregation. One of the best children's pastors in the Midwest is the one that serves at my own church.  Not only a woman but one with serious eyesight issues. Much of the growth we've seen is because of God putting people around her who she mentors in serving the kids at my church. Her nephew, a friend of mine, just became a kids pastor at a church not far from where I live.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2014, 02:44:36 PM »

No. It's not an issue I think is all that important and I have nothing against Protestant denominations that allow women preachers, but the Church forbids the ordination of women and those who have rebelled over the issue are schismatic in deliberately putting their pet issue above the Church. My opposition is less about the belief that women cannot be preachers, and in many Protestant sects being a preacher doesn't in itself have deep theological connotations (like ordination, apostolic succession, etc.), but more about caring for the Church and its teachings more than pet social projects, note organizations Women Priests for an example.
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afleitch
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« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2014, 02:52:33 PM »

No. It's not an issue I think is all that important and I have nothing against Protestant denominations that allow women preachers, but the Church forbids the ordination of women and those who have rebelled over the issue are schismatic in deliberately putting their pet issue above the Church. My opposition is less about the belief that women cannot be preachers, and in many Protestant sects being a preacher doesn't in itself have deep theological connotations (like ordination, apostolic succession, etc.), but more about caring for the Church and its teachings more than pet social projects, note organizations Women Priests for an example.

Because of course it makes perfect sense for men alone to preach on matters relating to women or to female sexuality or health just as much as it makes sense for celibate men to preach on matters of sex, for men who are not in personal/sexual relationships to give ordinance on the manner of those, for men who can't marry or face the prospect of divorce to preach on those matters and men who don't have children to preach on having children, raising them, the family and family planning. Obviously the Church clearly chooses the most talented and most able of their entire faith to preach the word of god and the doctrine of the Church.
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Cassius
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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2014, 02:59:59 PM »

No. It's not an issue I think is all that important and I have nothing against Protestant denominations that allow women preachers, but the Church forbids the ordination of women and those who have rebelled over the issue are schismatic in deliberately putting their pet issue above the Church. My opposition is less about the belief that women cannot be preachers, and in many Protestant sects being a preacher doesn't in itself have deep theological connotations (like ordination, apostolic succession, etc.), but more about caring for the Church and its teachings more than pet social projects, note organizations Women Priests for an example.

Because of course it makes perfect sense for men alone to preach on matters relating to women or to female sexuality or health just as much as it makes sense for celibate men to preach on matters of sex, for men who are not in personal/sexual relationships to give ordinance on the manner of those, for men who can't marry or face the prospect of divorce to preach on those matters and men who don't have children to preach on having children, raising them, the family and family planning. Obviously the Church clearly chooses the most talented and most able of their entire faith to preach the word of god and the doctrine of the Church.

I concur, its just the same as those damned unordained atheists pontificating on how the Church should run its affairs. Honestly, the idea.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2014, 03:00:51 PM »

No. It's not an issue I think is all that important and I have nothing against Protestant denominations that allow women preachers, but the Church forbids the ordination of women and those who have rebelled over the issue are schismatic in deliberately putting their pet issue above the Church. My opposition is less about the belief that women cannot be preachers, and in many Protestant sects being a preacher doesn't in itself have deep theological connotations (like ordination, apostolic succession, etc.), but more about caring for the Church and its teachings more than pet social projects, note organizations Women Priests for an example.

Because of course it makes perfect sense for men alone to preach on matters relating to women or to female sexuality or health just as much as it makes sense for celibate men to preach on matters of sex, for men who are not in personal/sexual relationships to give ordinance on the manner of those, for men who can't marry or face the prospect of divorce to preach on those matters and men who don't have children to preach on having children, raising them, the family and family planning. Obviously the Church clearly chooses the most talented and most able of their entire faith to preach the word of god and the doctrine of the Church.

And God chose a man with a speech impediment to promulgate his Covenant. Jesus chose a coward to hand the keys to his church to, and uneducated fishermen to go forth and convert the nations. I'm sure he asked for their CVs and resumes first.
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afleitch
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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2014, 03:15:44 PM »

No. It's not an issue I think is all that important and I have nothing against Protestant denominations that allow women preachers, but the Church forbids the ordination of women and those who have rebelled over the issue are schismatic in deliberately putting their pet issue above the Church. My opposition is less about the belief that women cannot be preachers, and in many Protestant sects being a preacher doesn't in itself have deep theological connotations (like ordination, apostolic succession, etc.), but more about caring for the Church and its teachings more than pet social projects, note organizations Women Priests for an example.

Because of course it makes perfect sense for men alone to preach on matters relating to women or to female sexuality or health just as much as it makes sense for celibate men to preach on matters of sex, for men who are not in personal/sexual relationships to give ordinance on the manner of those, for men who can't marry or face the prospect of divorce to preach on those matters and men who don't have children to preach on having children, raising them, the family and family planning. Obviously the Church clearly chooses the most talented and most able of their entire faith to preach the word of god and the doctrine of the Church.

And God chose a man with a speech impediment to promulgate his Covenant. Jesus chose a coward to hand the keys to his church to, and uneducated fishermen to go forth and convert the nations. I'm sure he asked for their CVs and resumes first.

Do you think a person would perhaps be a better preacher if he or she was less 'set apart' from general society and it's experiences? I say this as someone who has known a priest somewhat intimately and understand the constraints that by his own admission, lessened his ability to serve the parish to his fullest extent.
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