would oyu disown your child if he/she joined a union?

[WalterMitty]

what do you say?

[A18]

Option 1

[Moooooo]

No, I would buy her a new car and send her to Disney Land.   

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

[A18]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

Ever heard of quitting?

[angus]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

you can have such a kid.  it's up to you to nuture that.  don't sell out your (and your family's) personal liberties so cheaply.  I have no problem with a child who wants to join a union.  But I'd have even less problem with a child who wants to dedicate his life as a union-busting attorney. 

[opebo]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

you can have such a kid.  it's up to you to nuture that.  don't sell out your (and your family's) personal liberties so cheaply.  I have no problem with a child who wants to join a union.  But I'd have even less problem with a child who wants to dedicate his life as a union-busting attorney. 

How would a union reduce a working-class person's personal liberties?

[angus]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

you can have such a kid.  it's up to you to nuture that.  don't sell out your (and your family's) personal liberties so cheaply.  I have no problem with a child who wants to join a union.  But I'd have even less problem with a child who wants to dedicate his life as a union-busting attorney. 

How would a union reduce a working-class person's personal liberties?

it happens all the time.  in some states you can be required to join a union to even be eligible for certain jobs.  No one should be required to say you have to pay X dollars to some boss just to get a job.  nor should any money be forced out of me that will go to help fund certain candidates' election campaigns.  Nor should anyone tell me I can't work an extra hour or two if I want, which is basically what unions do, albeit indirectly.  you know all this.  we have been over it before.  A contract is a personal matter between the employee and the employer.  Or should be.  Any external interference infringes, therefore, upon both parties.

[opebo]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

you can have such a kid.  it's up to you to nuture that.  don't sell out your (and your family's) personal liberties so cheaply.  I have no problem with a child who wants to join a union.  But I'd have even less problem with a child who wants to dedicate his life as a union-busting attorney. 

How would a union reduce a working-class person's personal liberties?

it happens all the time.  in some states you can be required to join a union to even be eligible for certain jobs.  No one should be required to say you have to pay X dollars to some boss just to get a job.  nor should any money be forced out of me that will go to help fund certain candidates' election campaigns.  Nor should anyone tell me I can't work an extra hour or two if I want, which is basically what unions do, albeit indirectly.  you know all this.  we have been over it before.  A contract is a personal matter between the employee and the employer.  Or should be.  Any external interference infringes, therefore, upon both parties.

Perhaps it does infringe, but in a way that invariably benefits the worker.  Any worker who would prefer to go it alone rather than enjoy the protection of a union is self-destructive.

[ian]

no

[Hitchabrut]

Unions are annoying and hypocritical, but they aren't particularly abhorrent so that I would.

No

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A contract is a personal matter between the employee and the employer.  Or should be.  Any external interference infringes, therefore, upon both parties.

General idea of unions is that the collective bargaining power of all the workers in a certain company is stronger than the bargaining power of an individual worker in said company.
Which is why verticle/industrial unions are better than horizantal/craft unions.

[A18]

Yes, but you should be allowed to have a no union policy.

[angus]

No. If I had a kid I'd like them to have a decent job that payed decent wages and didn't have a tyrannical boss who could do whatever they feel like doing.

you can have such a kid.  it's up to you to nuture that.  don't sell out your (and your family's) personal liberties so cheaply.  I have no problem with a child who wants to join a union.  But I'd have even less problem with a child who wants to dedicate his life as a union-busting attorney. 

How would a union reduce a working-class person's personal liberties?

it happens all the time.  in some states you can be required to join a union to even be eligible for certain jobs.  No one should be required to say you have to pay X dollars to some boss just to get a job.  nor should any money be forced out of me that will go to help fund certain candidates' election campaigns.  Nor should anyone tell me I can't work an extra hour or two if I want, which is basically what unions do, albeit indirectly.  you know all this.  we have been over it before.  A contract is a personal matter between the employee and the employer.  Or should be.  Any external interference infringes, therefore, upon both parties.

Perhaps it does infringe, but in a way that invariably benefits the worker.  Any worker who would prefer to go it alone rather than enjoy the protection of a union is self-destructive.

I respectfully disagree, and I offer my own situation as evidence of the non-destructiveness of electing not to join any union.  I have never joined a union, and I have never been paid any less than any of my colleagues in the same position.  In fact, I can think of two jobs that I had in which I was able to get myself hired at higher rates than my peers, most of whom are members of a professional organization, not exactly a union, but nevertheless not one that I belong to either.  If my bosses get pissy with me, screw 'em.  Seriously.  As A18 suggests, we are mobile, and can quit and go somewhere else.  I want that freedom.  You will not have it with unions.  And you will not have others as well.  no offense, opebo, but I do not think your situation entitles you to make broad sweeping generalizations about the white-collar working-class Americans.  You may or may not be aware of the lifestyles of the working class.  But you clearly are not aware that it is possible to take oneself into an interview and manage it well and to maximize the benefits through one's own cunning and without having to give dollars and sovereignty to some organization.

I'll stipulate that I may not be able to make broad sweeping generalizations, either, since, as I have just read Al's post, that I haven't the foggiest idea what distinguishes a vertical from horizontal union.  But I do know that I've had no problems getting published, getting situations, getting grant funding, etc., even though I haven't joined either the API or the ACS like most of my colleagues.  Again, these professional organizations aren't "unions" but I think the analogy is legitimate.  If those dorks feel like they can't get ahead unless they pay some organization 200 dollars per year for the privelege of getting a monthly magazine with academic job postings, then, by all means, let them put their money there.  Same for unions.  I'm an open-shop kind of guy.  I do not think unions ought to be outlawed (in fact, I think very little ought to be outlawed), but I also think that membership should never be a prerequisite for employment.

[Joe Kakistocracy]

Who the hell would actually disown their own daughter for joining a labor union?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Who the hell would actually disown their own daughter for joining a labor union?

My guess would be Richius.