How can anyone be for high-stakes standardized tests?

[FerrisBueller86]

I am disturbed by the spreading infection of high-stakes standardized testing, which is caused by the No Child Left Untested Act.  What's happening more and more is that one standardized test has more unilateral power than a school year's worth of grades.  Students who don't pass that one test have their graduations jeopardized, their teachers and principals risk getting fired, and their schools can lose funding.

I sometimes wonder about the proponents of high-stakes standardized testing.  I did well on standardized tests, I was a National Merit Finalist, and my SAT and GRE scores greatly overpredicted my academic performance.  I certainly would like to think that standardized test scores mean a lot, but I know from experience that standardized tests are superficial, and teaching to the tests can only dumb down the educational system.  Indeed, I was too obsessed with GPA as a student, and that damaged me intellectually because I was more interested in butt-covering than in actually learning and accomplishing things.

I see No Child Left Untested as a plot to undermine the public school system.

[Alcon]

No Child Left Behind has disappointed me. We have a state standardized test called the WASL. For a month before the test, the school was literally explaining how to take the WASL in accordance with the standards that had just changed. They had to re-test us things using different names! We had it totally down, so I was a bit surprised to find I got a 3 (on a scale of 1-4 with a 4+ possible, so effectively 1-5). That is the first standardized test I did not test in the 99th percentile on (I am weirdly good at standardized tests, even though I hate them) and to this day I don't know why.

Why I should be measured based on what the school district knows is beyond me. I knew perfectly well what I was doing - it made sense, and worked. It just didn't hapen to conform to whatever the standards for the test were.

In my education, at least, NCLB has been a failure.

[Richard]

The federal government should have NO jurisdiction on education!!  It should solely be a state's obligation!  Then again, my kids will never, ever set foot in a public school.  Public education is going down the toilet, and the faster it is flushed, the better.

[Citizen James]

Well, if you make standardized tests it's probably pretty profitable.

Ditto for #2 pencils.

If you're a simpleminded sort who thinks people are atonomatons and knowledge can be measured by a single high-stakes test, and discount other posible variables (lack of sleep or nutrition, family events, generally bad day, test anxiety...), I suppose you might be happy.

And if you really think the US would be better off if it were more like the third world (widespread illiteracy and poverty, rampant crime, etc..) you might long for the death of the public school system.

Actually, I think the school system is in better shape than many people think.  What I see in schools today is a little milder than when I went to school in the 80's (In the middle of upper middle class whitebread suburbia too).   It certainly has a lot of room for improvement, and problems that need to be addressed; but for the most part most schools are not as much of the social darwinist nightmare some people make them out to be.

I like some of the ideals of NCLB, such as having high qualifications for teaching; but it does nothing to attract highly qualified people into the profession, and reroutes a ton of cash on these high stakes tests instead, cutting the funds available for educational activities.  (Yes, art is a form of learning; it's been long shown that there is a connection between musical skill and math skills, and PE helps get/keep the kids in better physical shape which can improve their educatability and drain off excess nervious energy).

[dazzleman]

It all depends on what's on the test.

I think there's a certain benefit to standardization, within reason.  Standardized tests provide this, and remove some of the subjectivity in grading and grade inflation that has plagued education.  It puts everybody on the same basis to accurately assess the level of skills.

I don't think standardized tests should be the be-all and end-all of everything, but they serve a purpose.

The types of complaints that I'm hearing about NCLB almost prove to me that the law has some merit, despite the fact that it is basically a liberal Ted Kennedy law.  Of course, he abandoned it once Bush accepted his proposals, and his friends in the teacher's unions realized they may actually be held accountable for something.

I am ambivalent about federal involvement in education.  I think a more highly educated work force is strongly in the national interest in order to maintain our wealth and standard of living.  It is on that basis that I give lukewarm support to federal involvement in education when, philosophically, I would rather the federal government simply butt out.

I don't think our educational system has declined the way some people say it has.  In many ways, academic requirements today are more rigorous than they were in the 1970s.  Keep in mind that in the "good old days" a much smaller percentage of the population actually finished high school than today, so that while those who finished may have been equally or even better educated, educational resources were being concentrated on fewer people.  Today we demand that the schools educate a larger portion of the population to a higher level, and we have also asked the schools to take on more of the parents' jobs, as family structure has weakened due to feminism, more single parent families, moral decline, etc.  I think we need to keep that in perspective.

[Ebowed]

I hate standardized testing.

[David S]

The federal government should not be involved in education. But standardized testing does not require federal involvement.  Standardized testing can help to determine whether students are learning basic skills or not. Also, without standardized tests you have no yardstick by which to measure progress.

[??????????]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

[Alcon]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

Hey, here they make non-English speakers take the test and count them as any other children. Schools with ESL (English as a Second Language) programs are thus punished for keeping the programs, and lose a ton of money. The programs are cut, and kids can't learn English if they want to.

That doesn't work out very well, either.

[??????????]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

Hey, here they make non-English speakers take the test and count them as any other children. Schools with ESL (English as a Second Language) programs are thus punished for keeping the programs, and lose a ton of money. The programs are cut, and kids can't learn English if they want to.

That doesn't work out very well, either.

This problem could be easily resolved if non-English speakers were  required to speak English before enrolling in any school and even before entering the country.

[TomC]

I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year.

Yes, this teacher and her classroom standards need to be seriously reviewed.

[Alcon]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

Hey, here they make non-English speakers take the test and count them as any other children. Schools with ESL (English as a Second Language) programs are thus punished for keeping the programs, and lose a ton of money. The programs are cut, and kids can't learn English if they want to.

That doesn't work out very well, either.

This problem could be easily resolved if non-English speakers were  required to speak English before enrolling in any school and even before entering the country.

Um, they do speak English - that's what the class is for after all. Just not as well as others, and thus have major difficulties on the language portions of the test. If you are expecting all immigrants to be fluent to the level of the average American, the immigration levels would drop to near-nothing (which most people would consider a bad thing, although maybe not you.)

[??????????]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

Hey, here they make non-English speakers take the test and count them as any other children. Schools with ESL (English as a Second Language) programs are thus punished for keeping the programs, and lose a ton of money. The programs are cut, and kids can't learn English if they want to.

That doesn't work out very well, either.

This problem could be easily resolved if non-English speakers were  required to speak English before enrolling in any school and even before entering the country.

Um, they do speak English - that's what the class is for after all. Just not as well as others, and thus have major difficulties on the language portions of the test. If you are expecting all immigrants to be fluent to the level of the average American, the immigration levels would drop to near-nothing (which most people would consider a bad thing, although maybe not you.)

I would like to stop illegal immigration and get to the point where legal immigration is minimal.

[Alcon]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

Hey, here they make non-English speakers take the test and count them as any other children. Schools with ESL (English as a Second Language) programs are thus punished for keeping the programs, and lose a ton of money. The programs are cut, and kids can't learn English if they want to.

That doesn't work out very well, either.

This problem could be easily resolved if non-English speakers were  required to speak English before enrolling in any school and even before entering the country.

Um, they do speak English - that's what the class is for after all. Just not as well as others, and thus have major difficulties on the language portions of the test. If you are expecting all immigrants to be fluent to the level of the average American, the immigration levels would drop to near-nothing (which most people would consider a bad thing, although maybe not you.)

I would like to stop illegal immigration and get to the point where legal immigration is minimal.

I somehow doubt there are many illegal immigrants in my neighborhood. The ESL programs are basically exchange students (I'm not sure why they count in the first place.)

[??????????]

I like the Florida F-Cat program but I don't like the pass/fail part of it. I don't see it as being fair that a 3rd or 9th grader can fail the whole year and have to repeat if they fail the test. Even if they get excellent grades throughout the year. I also don't like the fact that children of spanish speakers get a free exemption for three years from the pass/fail portion of the test if english isn't their first language.

Hey, here they make non-English speakers take the test and count them as any other children. Schools with ESL (English as a Second Language) programs are thus punished for keeping the programs, and lose a ton of money. The programs are cut, and kids can't learn English if they want to.

That doesn't work out very well, either.

This problem could be easily resolved if non-English speakers were  required to speak English before enrolling in any school and even before entering the country.

Um, they do speak English - that's what the class is for after all. Just not as well as others, and thus have major difficulties on the language portions of the test. If you are expecting all immigrants to be fluent to the level of the average American, the immigration levels would drop to near-nothing (which most people would consider a bad thing, although maybe not you.)

I would like to stop illegal immigration and get to the point where legal immigration is minimal.

I somehow doubt there are many illegal immigrants in my neighborhood. The ESL programs are basically exchange students (I'm not sure why they count in the first place.)

Come to my town sometime if you want to see illegals.

[AuH2O]

You need standardized tests because secondary schools are incomparable to one another. Even then it's not perfect, but GPA in HS and college has a lot to do with where you go.

Thus, the SAT, and the graduate tests. I'm studying for the LSAT right now...

[ian]

I am disturbed by the spreading infection of high-stakes standardized testing, which is caused by the No Child Left Untested Act.  What's happening more and more is that one standardized test has more unilateral power than a school year's worth of grades.  Students who don't pass that one test have their graduations jeopardized, their teachers and principals risk getting fired, and their schools can lose funding.

I sometimes wonder about the proponents of high-stakes standardized testing.  I did well on standardized tests, I was a National Merit Finalist, and my SAT and GRE scores greatly overpredicted my academic performance.  I certainly would like to think that standardized test scores mean a lot, but I know from experience that standardized tests are superficial, and teaching to the tests can only dumb down the educational system.  Indeed, I was too obsessed with GPA as a student, and that damaged me intellectually because I was more interested in butt-covering than in actually learning and accomplishing things.

I see No Child Left Untested as a plot to undermine the public school system.

I agree.  Good choice of words!

[A18]

I strongly favor undermining public schools, but I don't support 'high-stakes' standardized tests, at least not those imposed at an unconstitutional (federal) level.