Terry Shaivo---for the record
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  Terry Shaivo---for the record
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Author Topic: Terry Shaivo---for the record  (Read 7406 times)
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2005, 01:17:03 PM »

You seemed to think the point about whether she was conscious was very important, or you wouldn't have resorted to extreme measures to refute it.

Sort of like how you pretended the spousal abuse allegation wasn't relevant to the case, then spent a great deal of time trying to refute it.

I answered the question of whether she was conscious because a poster asked the question.  I felt it deserved an answer, and I gave an accurate one.
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J. J.
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2005, 02:07:51 PM »

You seemed to think the point about whether she was conscious was very important, or you wouldn't have resorted to extreme measures to refute it.

No, actually I've said just the opposite.  I've said that she is not competent, but that really doesn't have to with her state of consciousnes.  The question is, "Would Terri Schiavo want to be kept alive in this state, if she could make the decision?"  If she were compentent, she could make the decision herself to remove the tube, but she isn't.

The only thing that said about the PVS is that what evidence has been permitted is symptomatic of a PVS and that her movements and vocalizations would occur in a PVS.


Sort of like how you pretended the spousal abuse allegation wasn't relevant to the case, then spent a great deal of time trying to refute it.

I refute it because it is a goundless attack and because it hits at the Schindler's motives.  In 1990, when Mr. Schiavo was first appointed guardian, they had no objection (and technically the could have).

If they thought he was "abusing" his wife, why didn't the object at that time.  They did object three years later, claiming abuse, which was found to be groundless.  Now, in those three years, from 1990 to 1993, what changed?  Mrs. Schiavo was still getting therapy and would until 1994.  Their was no DNR order at the time.

One thing that changed was that Mr. Schiavo, who received a settlement in the malpractice suits, declinded to give some of the money to the Schindlers.

This deals with the Schindler's motives in the early 1990's and their claims today.  There is a pattern of dishonesty with the Schindlers.  The claims they made in 1993 is similar to the claims that they made in the last weeks.

You have defended their dishonesty as being an act of "desperation" now, but in 1993, when they made similar claims.  There was no "desperation" in that time, no suggestion that the feeding tube removed, and no DNR order.

The question is, who throughout this 15 year process has been consistent answers.  It is not the Schindlers.


I answered the question of whether she was conscious because a poster asked the question.  I felt it deserved an answer, and I gave an accurate one.

The question isn't what state of conscious, or lack thereof, Mrs. Schiavo is in; that a red herring.  All sides agree that is not sufficient for her to make a decision at this point, that she in incompetent to make this decision.

The question is, being in this state, did she, while competent, express any to have a feeding tube in her during this type of dimished capacity.  The evidence is that she did not wish this tube to be kept in, in this situation.  After 15 years, there has been no evidence that she ever expressed an opinion stating that she would want it in. 

This isn't a question one side claiming she said one thing and one side said something contradictory.  It is a case where once says one thing and the other side makes no claim that she ever said anything else.
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J. J.
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2005, 02:39:28 PM »

You just posted that Terri may be recieving the morphine to relieve pain from cramps, but that no such pain could exist.

I just noticed this. and here is what I quoted:

She could have cramping, but that can be eased with "comfort measures," such as a morphine drip, Gracias said. "That in itself can lead to... a much less difficult end of life."

The word "pain" is not even used. 
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2005, 03:14:12 PM »

The poster deserved an answer to his question whether you think its relevant he ask it or not.  This should have been obvious, but apparently it had to be explained to you.
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J. J.
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2005, 03:58:10 PM »

The poster deserved an answer to his question whether you think its relevant he ask it or not.  This should have been obvious, but apparently it had to be explained to you.

Oh, I agree, but is should also be made clear that even if conscious, she is not capable of making a decision.  This would be true even if she could talk.

This is where compentency comes into play.
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