Balance of Power (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It is a sad commentary on the current administration that the Secretary of State, the person in charge of our diplomacy, thinks that the only way to engage other nations and to be involved in world is by the means of war.  Secretary Hay speaks of isolation and yet does he not see that by choosing sides in squabbles not of our own concern, we isolate ourselves from those we make into our enemies.  Rather, Secretary Hay appears to share the same idea as the Red Sultan, that one engages the world by engaging in battle and bloodshed.  If only Mr. Hay had learned from the first president he served that war is a last resort to be engaged in only when reason had failed rather that from the last president he server that war is to be engaged for the slightest of reasons.

I would much rather trade goods and ideas with the world than bullets and shells. We need a strong Navy to protect the merchants and missionaries we send out to engage the world, but life is too precious to allow our valiant soldiers and sailors to be killed and maimed for little cause.  Furthermore, our farmers and laborers are also deserving of our care.  That is why we should establish standards for workplace safety, adopt an eight hour working day, and ensure that our farmers enjoy the fruits of their labor rather than bankers and tycoons.  Under a Democratic administration you can be sure that America will attend to the homefront with the care the current Republican administration has only shown the battlefront.

[Dr. Cynic]

We've been stuck here long enough. If Snowstalker wants the war to continue, let it go on, but we need the next turn.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

The Democrats are sorely mistaken if they believe we were searching for a reason to enter a war.... as he mentioned, I was the personal secretary to Abraham Lincoln and I have seen too much bloodshed in my time in government. In this case-- a violent, unrestrained Russia atacked our ally which was, by the way, a direct threat to our interests in the Far East which impacts our trade and our economy in addition to triggering our alliance

The gentleman is skilled at rhetoric but we do not need a scribe, we need a leader. The gentleman agrees we need a strong navy- our alliance with Japan has our navy in the Far East, our alliance with the Ottomans has us strong in the Mediterranean. Our alliances with Britain and France help us on that front as well and our friendly relations with most of the other nations ensure safe passage for our ships both military and civilian. And- by the way- we were on the winning side. The prestige and power of the USA was enhanced by my decision to stand by our allies and we will always stand by our friends because that is what America does

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The German plan is absurd. To suggest that Serbia and Montenegro would be "happy" to lose their sovereignty, even though they are both still fully intact, is utterly absurd, and to suggest that they would not cause minority problems in the same way that annexing a sliver of Western Ukraine would is even more so. I don't know if the Germans are lying or just that dense. We have a duty to protect our allies, the ones we forced to fight alongside us, and unless they have both been completely conquered there is no way to enforce the treaty on them.

I plainly do not want the war to continue. It is the Germans who have threatened us with breaking the ceasefire if we do not accept their terms without question--even though we had agreed to collaborate on any peace treaty that was ultimately signed.

[windjammer]

The German plan is absurd. To suggest that Serbia and Montenegro would be "happy" to lose their sovereignty, even though they are both still fully intact, is utterly absurd, and to suggest that they would not cause minority problems in the same way that annexing a sliver of Western Ukraine would is even more so. I don't know if the Germans are lying or just that dense. We have a duty to protect our allies, the ones we forced to fight alongside us, and unless they have both been completely conquered there is no way to enforce the treaty on them.

I plainly do not want the war to continue. It is the Germans who have threatened us with breaking the ceasefire if we do not accept their terms without question--even though we had agreed to collaborate on any peace treaty that was ultimately signed.

You agreed with this plan, and then you changed your mind.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The German plan is absurd. To suggest that Serbia and Montenegro would be "happy" to lose their sovereignty, even though they are both still fully intact, is utterly absurd, and to suggest that they would not cause minority problems in the same way that annexing a sliver of Western Ukraine would is even more so. I don't know if the Germans are lying or just that dense. We have a duty to protect our allies, the ones we forced to fight alongside us, and unless they have both been completely conquered there is no way to enforce the treaty on them.

I plainly do not want the war to continue. It is the Germans who have threatened us with breaking the ceasefire if we do not accept their terms without question--even though we had agreed to collaborate on any peace treaty that was ultimately signed.

You agreed with this plan, and then you changed your mind.

Yes, because I thought about it and realized how little it made sense.

(note: I accidentally posted this here and not in the war thread).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Spare us your bulls**t, Snowstalker. You were obviously trying to delay your defeat by stopping the game.

Geez, you are so transparent it's laughable.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I'm fully aware that I'm not going to win this war; what I'm doing is trying to negotiate a sensible peace treaty, not delay the game. That's merely an unfortunate side-effect.

[windjammer]

I'm fully aware that I'm not going to win this war; what I'm doing is trying to negotiate a sensible peace treaty, not delay the game. That's merely an unfortunate side-effect.

Yup, that's why you changed your mind after having agreed with my proposal, proposal which was generous for Russia.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

But it was anything but for our allies. I've already responded to the "changing my mind" nonsense but you appear to be either incredibly dense or a broken record disguised as a poster.

[windjammer]

But it was anything but for our allies. I've already responded to the "changing my mind" nonsense but you appear to be either incredibly dense or a broken record disguised as a poster.

A broken record?

[Lumine]

Gentlemen, please, we got the point, you won't sign the peace, there's no need to repeat the same arguments over and over again. I am about to collapse thanks to a bunch of things to do (several essays among those), so the next turn won't come until tonight (I have to make some adjustments now that the war goes on).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Thank you, Lumine

Snowstalker, honestly, you're not going to get a better deal. Germany's determination is very clear and you don't have much leverage.

And btw, I did message you some time ago and said I can try to help you two negotiate a deal, but you ignored me, so I'm simply done. We are at peace, so I won't declare war on you, but I will give every diplomatic and political support to my German allies I can.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Thank you, Lumine

Snowstalker, honestly, you're not going to get a better deal. Germany's determination is very clear and you don't have much leverage.

And btw, I did message you some time ago and said I can try to help you two negotiate a deal, but you ignored me, so I'm simply done. We are at peace, so I won't declare war on you, but I will give every diplomatic and political support to my German allies I can.

I don't remember receiving a message like that.

I would simply point out how nonsensical the idea of annexing Serbia is and how many issues it would cause Austria regardless of how much autonomy you gave them. I've pointed out all the basic issues with it--because it's bad for both us and Austria--but windjammer has failed to give an intellectual response to any of them other than parroting his talking points, of which I've thoroughly debunked all of them. The German plan is clear; propose an unacceptable or irrational peace, force us to continue to fight and lose ground, and eventually force us past the Urals and have all of Europe bow to the Hohenzollerns.

[windjammer]

Thank you, Lumine

Snowstalker, honestly, you're not going to get a better deal. Germany's determination is very clear and you don't have much leverage.

And btw, I did message you some time ago and said I can try to help you two negotiate a deal, but you ignored me, so I'm simply done. We are at peace, so I won't declare war on you, but I will give every diplomatic and political support to my German allies I can.

I don't remember receiving a message like that.

I would simply point out how nonsensical the idea of annexing Serbia is and how many issues it would cause Austria regardless of how much autonomy you gave them. I've pointed out all the basic issues with it--because it's bad for both us and Austria--but windjammer has failed to give an intellectual response to any of them other than parroting his talking points, of which I've thoroughly debunked all of them. The German plan is clear; propose an unacceptable or irrational peace, force us to continue to fight and lose ground, and eventually force us past the Urals and have all of Europe bow to the Hohenzollerns.

Speak as much as you want.
See you next turn

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I'm beginning to doubt your reading comprehension skills (or more likely, how much you care what I have to say). The German attitude towards these negotiations has been consistently despicable from the beginning.

[windjammer]

I'm beginning to doubt your reading comprehension skills (or more likely, how much you care what I have to say). The German attitude towards these negotiations has been consistently despicable from the beginning.

Are you saying I'm retarded?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Thank you, Lumine

Snowstalker, honestly, you're not going to get a better deal. Germany's determination is very clear and you don't have much leverage.

And btw, I did message you some time ago and said I can try to help you two negotiate a deal, but you ignored me, so I'm simply done. We are at peace, so I won't declare war on you, but I will give every diplomatic and political support to my German allies I can.

I don't remember receiving a message like that.

I'm going to give you a benefit of bad memory

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Again, first you committ yourself, they you pull Mitt Romney. No credibility.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Thank you, Lumine

Snowstalker, honestly, you're not going to get a better deal. Germany's determination is very clear and you don't have much leverage.

And btw, I did message you some time ago and said I can try to help you two negotiate a deal, but you ignored me, so I'm simply done. We are at peace, so I won't declare war on you, but I will give every diplomatic and political support to my German allies I can.

I don't remember receiving a message like that.

I'm going to give you a benefit of bad memory

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Again, first you committ yourself, they you pull Mitt Romney. No credibility.

Because I legitimately thought about the issue and changed my mind because I believe the proposal is unfeasible? I don't see the problem with this.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Thank you, Lumine

Snowstalker, honestly, you're not going to get a better deal. Germany's determination is very clear and you don't have much leverage.

And btw, I did message you some time ago and said I can try to help you two negotiate a deal, but you ignored me, so I'm simply done. We are at peace, so I won't declare war on you, but I will give every diplomatic and political support to my German allies I can.

I don't remember receiving a message like that.

I'm going to give you a benefit of bad memory

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Again, first you committ yourself, they you pull Mitt Romney. No credibility.

Because I legitimately thought about the issue and changed my mind because I believe the proposal is unfeasible? I don't see the problem with this.

Maybe you should have think over the proposal first before making saying a damn "OK"?

How can we take you seriously?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Stop dwelling on the past and start working towards a reasonable peace now. And my "okay" was at most tentative.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Secretary Hay boasts of America being on the winning side in the Great Russian War.  If he considers being on the winning side in a war that is essentially one nation against the rest of the world is a great accomplishment, then it appears he has very low expectations.  However I have great expectations of what this great country can do, if it will but reëmbrace the destiny our good fortune has given us.  I do not believe that destiny calls for us to be periodically embroiled in wars overseas as the multitude of alliances the Republicans have entangled us in would ensure.  They have signed so many treaties that this republic is practically guaranteed to be called upon in any future war that breaks out in the world.  Indeed, we may well be called upon by both combating sides to join them in their struggle against the other.

Furthermore, I note that the Republicans speak almost exclusively of their accomplishments overseas, as modest as they have been.  Do they have nothing to say about what they will do to ensure that farmers get a fair return, rather than allowing the unscrupulous to squeeze every last penny from the cornucopia of their hard work?  We need regulation of the commodity exchanges so that tycoons cannot secretly collude to not offer farmers a fair price for their produce.  Do they have nothing to say about the rights of laborers to be protected from unsafe conditions or being pushed to work until they collapse from fatigue?  We need workplace safety laws and the eight hour day.  Yet on these and many other issues that directly affect the voters, it appears that they have nothing to say, since they have said nothing.

[windjammer]

Secretary Hay boasts of America being on the winning side in the Great Russian War.  If he considers being on the winning side in a war that is essentially one nation against the rest of the world is a great accomplishment, then it appears he has very low expectations.  However I have great expectations of what this great country can do, if it will but reëmbrace the destiny our good fortune has given us.  I do not believe that destiny calls for us to be periodically embroiled in wars overseas as the multitude of alliances the Republicans have entangled us in would ensure.  They have signed so many treaties that this republic is practically guaranteed to be called upon in any future war that breaks out in the world.  Indeed, we may well be called upon by both combating sides to join them in their struggle against the other.

Furthermore, I note that the Republicans speak almost exclusively of their accomplishments overseas, as modest as they have been.  Do they have nothing to say about what they will do to ensure that farmers get a fair return, rather than allowing the unscrupulous to squeeze every last penny from the cornucopia of their hard work?  We need regulation of the commodity exchanges so that tycoons cannot secretly collude to not offer farmers a fair price for their produce.  Do they have nothing to say about the rights of laborers to be protected from unsafe conditions or being pushed to work until they collapse from fatigue?  We need workplace safety laws and the eight hour day.  Yet on these and many other issues that directly affect the voters, it appears that they have nothing to say, since they have said nothing.

So the party of Wilson is now staunchly isolationnist, hmmmm, interesting.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

OOC: Woodrow Wilson didn't even hold elected office until 1911.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

OOC: Even so, if you recall, Wilson campaigned in 1916 on the theme he kept us out of war.  Historically, the Republicans were the more bellicose party of the 1900s.  To the degree I'm diverging from history, I'm probably making them more populist on the economic issues than they actually were, tho you'll note I'm not mentioning silver at all, partly because in the real 1904 election it didn't get much mention, but also without having more details on the effects of the war on the American economy, commenting on such a narrow issue is tricky.