Is the following country more or less free than the US?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

[Jake]

Yes, Al and Nym agree with you.  Not exactly a mandate.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

OK, I have two states:

State A bans private schools and suburbs. But strippers can be naked in any strip club, even one that serves alcohol.

State B allows private schools and suburbs, but strippers can only be topless in places that serve alcohol. They can only be naked in non-alcoholic clubs.

State B is Minnesota, which I do like despite this minor inconveninece, but is there any reason I would prefer living in Minnesota to the ficticious State A?

That really seems like a minor inconvenience BRTD.  Topless dancers, I would assume, are just as good as fully nude dancers.  Could you go into why this rule inconveniences you?

It's a VERY minor inconvenience, but as far as I'm concerned the less clothing the better, even if the only thing they have on is virtually microscopic G-strings. In fact I probably wouldn't care about this at all if there was a nude club in my city, but there isn't, and I can only go to them when I'm in Minneapolis. There's also the issue of lap dances costing twice as much there, but that's not a legal issue.

Actually probably a bigger problem is only "one-way" contact is allowed here. That means while the strippers can touch you, you can't touch them. I'd rather change that actually.

But the fact is, giving more freedom in this area would much more increase freedom for something I use than anything involving private schools and suburbs.

[Nym90]

Yes, Al and Nym agree with you. Not exactly a mandate.

Um, I don't support banning suburbs, not by a long shot. If people want to live in them, they have every right to. I agree to a certain extent that suburbs often do contribute to the decay of the city, but the citizens of the city itself have a lot to do with it, too.

I want people to have choices. I strongly support developing inner city and rural areas so that people will have alternatives to suburbs. I think it's horrible from a moral perspective, not to mention bad for the economy as well, that people are often forced out of economic necessity to live in suburbs, contributing to pollution and traffic congestion even though they'd prefer to live closer to their jobs and places of recreation.

[dazzleman]

I agree to a certain extent that suburbs often do contribute to the decay of the city, but the citizens of the city itself have a lot to do with it, too.

It's great to hear a liberal admit that.  That's why you're one of my favorite liberals on this forum.  You don't see the need to get nasty and deny plain reality in order to advance your political views.

[dazzleman]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

Who wants to end public schools?  Some want to provide alternatives to the many failing public schools, but I can't think of anybody who wants to flat-out abolish public schools.

[John Dibble]

I don't care about my freedom to live in a hellhole I never would live in anyway or be able to open a school I never would. I would trade the freedom to those for something very minor like being able to have strippers in a place that serves alcohol be naked rather than just topless in a heartbeat.

The hallmark of a truly free society is one in which people will defend not merely what they like, but also what they dislike because they believe in freedom for everyone.

Exactly right. I don't care about my freedom to go see strippers in the least - not something I do. However I'd defend that freedom for others. Banning smoking in restaraunts wouldn't really affect me, but I fight for the right of owners to allow it. When you only are willing to fight for the freedoms you use, many those freedoms will be easier to take away when a majority decides they don't mind losing them either.

[Lunar]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's when people will defend the freedoms of things they DON'T like and affect them negatively.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

Who wants to end public schools?  Some want to provide alternatives to the many failing public schools, but I can't think of anybody who wants to flat-out abolish public schools.

lots of people here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17435.0

[John Dibble]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

Who wants to end public schools?  Some want to provide alternatives to the many failing public schools, but I can't think of anybody who wants to flat-out abolish public schools.

lots of people here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17435.0

10 people on this forum - yeah, that's lots of people. Do consider that the population of this forum isn't even close to having the average views of the actual population.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm not saying it's a widespread view, I'm just wondering why it doesn't get bashed as much as my view on public schools.

no private schools - everyone can still get an education
no public schools - not everyone can get an education

[Nym90]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

Who wants to end public schools?  Some want to provide alternatives to the many failing public schools, but I can't think of anybody who wants to flat-out abolish public schools.

lots of people here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17435.0

10 people on this forum - yeah, that's lots of people. Do consider that the population of this forum isn't even close to having the average views of the actual population.

True, though it was 20% of the total respondents to the poll. I agree that doesn't prove anything in and of itself, but I think at least 10% of the public would support eliminating public schools. The idea is probably fairly popular with the more extreme Republicans and Libertarians.

[John Dibble]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

Who wants to end public schools?  Some want to provide alternatives to the many failing public schools, but I can't think of anybody who wants to flat-out abolish public schools.

lots of people here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17435.0

10 people on this forum - yeah, that's lots of people. Do consider that the population of this forum isn't even close to having the average views of the actual population.

True, though it was 20% of the total respondents to the poll. I agree that doesn't prove anything in and of itself, but I think at least 10% of the public would support eliminating public schools. The idea is probably fairly popular with the more extreme Republicans and Libertarians.

Probably less than that. I would support reforming the system somehow, but still have the state(note, the state, not the feds) involved. One Libertarian who ran for govenor(forget the state) proposed that all public schools be made into charter schools, and that the parents choose which to send their kids to and elect boards of directors to determine the school curriculum. The state would still pay, $4,500 per student per year was the proposed amount. Probably would need some tweaking, but it is certainly an interesting proposal.

[dazzleman]

no private schools - everyone can still get an education

You obviously don't have much experience with inner city education.

[phk]

no private schools - everyone can still get an education

You obviously don't have much experience with inner city education.

We could abort the students that would end up going to one. Problem solved.

[dazzleman]

no private schools - everyone can still get an education

You obviously don't have much experience with inner city education.

We could abort the students that would end up going to one. Problem solved.

You're brilliant.  I want you and BRTD to be the national spokesmen for the Democratic party.

[phk]

no private schools - everyone can still get an education

You obviously don't have much experience with inner city education.

We could abort the students that would end up going to one. Problem solved.

You're brilliant.  I want you and BRTD to be the national spokesmen for the Democratic party.

Hey at least I don't want 2 million new prospective criminals roaming the streets.

But who cares, if we could ban abortion and the Democrats could make up the popular vote defecit.

[dazzleman]

Hey at least I don't want 2 million new prospective criminals roaming the streets.

But who cares, if we could ban abortion and the Democrats could make up the popular vote defecit.

Oh, you've seen that study too.  How about just doing what's right?

I regret bringing up the whole legalized abortion-crime reduction theory.  You have greatly twisted and overplayed it.

[phk]

Hey at least I don't want 2 million new prospective criminals roaming the streets.

But who cares, if we could ban abortion and the Democrats could make up the popular vote defecit.

Oh, you've seen that study too.  How about just doing what's right?

I regret bringing up the whole legalized abortion-crime reduction theory.  You have greatly twisted and overplayed it.

Its actually true.

Although nobody would be willing to admit it.

[Hatman 🍁]

Where is this country? I want to move there.

[Nym90]

no private schools - everyone can still get an education

You obviously don't have much experience with inner city education.

We could abort the students that would end up going to one. Problem solved.

You're brilliant.  I want you and BRTD to be the national spokesmen for the Democratic party.

Much to your chagrin, he's a member of the Communist party, not the Democratic party.

And no wisecracks about those two being one and the same.

[dazzleman]

no private schools - everyone can still get an education

You obviously don't have much experience with inner city education.

We could abort the students that would end up going to one. Problem solved.

You're brilliant.  I want you and BRTD to be the national spokesmen for the Democratic party.

Much to your chagrin, he's a member of the Communist party, not the Democratic party.

And no wisecracks about those two being one and the same.

I really don't take anything those two say seriously.  Whatever parties they belong to, they express their views in a way that can only repel most decent people.

[Platypus]

Less, duh...

[No more McShame]

well there are arguments for everything. What I don't understand is why everyone thinks I'm so extreme for wanting to ban private schools, but the people who want to end public schools are not, even though that would much more limit opportunities than banning private schools would.

I'm not the only one who complains about suburbs either:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=17353.0

Here's a good way to put it though: Let's say that for whatever reason, I had to choose for either strip clubs or private schools to be banned, and I must choose one. Is there really any reason for me to not choose private schools?

Who wants to end public schools?  Some want to provide alternatives to the many failing public schools, but I can't think of anybody who wants to flat-out abolish public schools.

I support ending public schools.  Private groups would do a better job than the gov't.  I do admit I'm in a overwhelmed minority on this issue however.

[DanielX]

I'm not saying it's a widespread view, I'm just wondering why it doesn't get bashed as much as my view on public schools.

no private schools - everyone can still get an education
no public schools - not everyone can get an education

I disagree. If you eliminate public schools, but offer vouchers to poor students to allow them to attend private schools... pretty much everyone can get an education.

Even without vouchers... almost everyone can afford clothing, right? furniture? Haircuts? There's a lot of things people don't get much of from the government, and if taxes were much lower, more could afford it anyway!