Why do you love America

[senatortombstone]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

Europe isn't as free as the Europeans would like you believe.

[WiseGuy]

I love America because, being a history fanatic (especially political history), I know the oppression that the peoples of other nations have been through and I am thankful that I am free from that kind of oppression.

I also love America, because you are free to rise or fall on your own merit, because you can do anything if you work hard and because we have to right to free speech.

[dazzleman]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

Europe isn't as free as the Europeans would like you believe.

Europeans are losing their freedom of speech in the name of political correctness.  I read that in France, an author is being prosecuted for writing a book critical of Islam.  We must fight to keep the liberals from imposing that here.

[senatortombstone]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

Europe isn't as free as the Europeans would like you believe.

Europeans are losing their freedom of speech in the name of political correctness.  I read that in France, an author is being prosecuted for writing a book critical of Islam.  We must fight to keep the liberals from imposing that here.

The liberal secularist movement is what is destroying Europe.  At the moment, minorities and Muslims are considered protected species, but that will change when liberals have reduced the white middle-class to nothing. 

I have never seen anything more suicidial than Liberalism

[David S]

One or two days after 911, I was driving down University Ave in Auburn Hills. As I merged onto I-75 I saw that someone had erected an absolutely huge American Flag from a crane by I-75. I've never seen such a large flag before or since. A  flag that big does not flutter in the breeze like smaller flags. It billows very slowly and majestically. At the instant that flag came into sight the Ray Charles version of America the Beautiful began playing on the radio. It was a very inspiring moment.

911 seemed like a statement from the terrorists saying we're going to destroy you. The sight of that flag was like a statement from all Americans saying "Like hell you will."

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

Europe isn't as free as the Europeans would like you believe.

Europeans are losing their freedom of speech in the name of political correctness.  I read that in France, an author is being prosecuted for writing a book critical of Islam.  We must fight to keep the liberals from imposing that here.

oh shut up, you're the one defending Islam when I trash it. And so is Bush when he says Islam is a "religion of peace". That's all the proof I need to know that Bush is a ing moron. Once again you are using a strawman. Do I look like someone who wants to stop criticism of Islam?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

Europe isn't as free as the Europeans would like you believe.

gun control - I do not own guns and do not care to
higher taxes - big deal, you already know that I don't care about taxes once I'm making a certain amount since there's no reason for me to do anything like buy expensive clothes, an expensive car or a huge suburban home
less free speech - I'm not a Nazi sympathizer, so I don't care

[opebo]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

The first two I couldn't care less about, and in any case they're more than made up for in several countries by toleration of drugs and prostitution.  As for free speech, you can't show a boob on TV in the US!  In Europe that would be considered perfectly acceptable.

[opebo]

when liberals have reduced the white middle-class to nothing. 

Actually it is in the US that the white middle-class is an endangered species, and the reason is 'conservative' economic policies, not liberalism. 

However I certainly do agree with you that books critical of religion, whether moslems or christians, should be encouraged, not discouraged.

[dazzleman]

Europeans are losing their freedom of speech in the name of political correctness.  I read that in France, an author is being prosecuted for writing a book critical of Islam.  We must fight to keep the liberals from imposing that here.

oh shut up, you're the one defending Islam when I trash it. And so is Bush when he says Islam is a "religion of peace". That's all the proof I need to know that Bush is a g moron. Once again you are using a strawman. Do I look like someone who wants to stop criticism of Islam?

I'm really beginning to wonder whether you are mentally impaired.  I have been highly critical of Islam in other threads; I have even admitted to prejudice against Muslims.  Now I express concern that a person can be prosecuted for expressing an opinion - something that true liberals should defend - and you attack me.  Should I say it's OK that one can go to jail for expressing an opinion, particularly one with which we both have some sympathy?

You're just upset that I told the truth about liberals wanting to suppress certain opinions in the name of political correctness.  If you can't see that's true, then you live under a rock.  It is liberals here who defend Islam, and call anybody who questions it a racist.  If you are not one of them, why are you so offended by my comments?

[Jake]

Violent video games are banned
Porn is legal and freely available
There is no draft
We have cheap postage rates
It's really easy to find rare collector vinyl and indie film DVDs here

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

Man, you make me sick sometimes. I'm glad you left the country, you don't deserve the freedoms that men like Washington and Lincoln established. "I can't tjink of one" the lame excuse I hear everyday from anti-Am,ericans who say that we are not a "free" people because we can't smoke marijuana and take dangerous narcotics until we blow our minds so much we can't think or screw everyone in sight without being thrown in prison. You and BRTD make me sick. How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

The day is coming when you and your anti-American and anti-Religion groups will have to answer before the lord Jesus Christ your sins, and I hope you are ready for it opebo, because I would not want to spend an eternity from God where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

My favorite PBrunsel post ever Nice work man

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I was pissed because you implied liberals want to do such things, which I obviously don't. Furthermore I can't think of a single liberal on this forum defending Islam, only moderates. Name one liberal who has. And you defended Islam when I said that Muslims can not handle democracy.

Your defense of Islam can be found here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=18329.15 and

Do you think I want to make it illegal to criticize Islam and that I have a positive view of it.

P.S. France does not have a leftist government.

[dazzleman]

I was pissed because you implied liberals want to do such things, which I obviously don't. Furthermore I can't think of a single liberal on this forum defending Islam, only moderates. Name one liberal who has. And you defended Islam when I said that Muslims can not handle democracy.

Your defense of Islam can be found here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=18329.15 and

Do you think I want to make it illegal to criticize Islam and that I have a positive view of it.

P.S. France does not have a leftist government.

First of all punk, when I say liberals, I don't necessarily mean anybody on this forum.  I mean liberals in general, in society.  Every time I criticize liberals is not a personal criticism of you, so you really need to get over that.

Second of all, that thread that you attached is not a defense of Islam.  It simply says that every single Muslim in the world is not evil.  Hardly a ringing defense.  I said that I did not consider it a religion of peace.  I said in another similar thread that I whenever I see a mosque, I suspect it to be a center of terrorism.  Trust me, I'm far from a defender of Islam.

Which makes me more angry that a country like France would prosecute a man who dares to tell the truth about a violent religion.  And in case you haven't noticed, leftists here are the ones looking to curtail free speech, whenever somebody might be "offended."  A teacher in Washington DC was fired for using the word "ndly" because somebody was offended by it because they were too stupid to know that it has no relation to the word "n."  Did this happen because DC is a hotbed of conservatism?  Face the fact that liberals, not conservatives, seek to curtail free speech.

As far as the French government not being leftist, you can't compare political scales in the US and Europe.  Political correctness is taking over Europe, and making Europeans take a back seat to violence-producing people like Muslims.  It's probably what they deserve for being overly tolerant toward those who don't share their values and refuse to adapt.  I fear we will share the same fate.

You really need to learn to debate logically rather than attacking individuals who have not attacked you, despite the fact that most of what you say is quite deserving of attack.

[Jake]

I was pissed because you implied liberals want to do such things, which I obviously don't. Furthermore I can't think of a single liberal on this forum defending Islam, only moderates. Name one liberal who has. And you defended Islam when I said that Muslims can not handle democracy.

Your defense of Islam can be found here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=18329.15 and

Do you think I want to make it illegal to criticize Islam and that I have a positive view of it.

P.S. France does not have a leftist government.

I don't think we should stereotype Muslims, though I find myself having to fight my own mind from doing it all the time.

There are many peaceful Muslims, but overall, I don't believe Islam is a religion of peace.  Neither, incidentally, does Pres. Bush, though I understand the reasons he feels he must say it is.

That's the beauty of politics.  For the sake of a greater good, or your perception of a greater good, you must often advance opinions that you know not to be true.  Liberal Democrats do it all the time, on a whole host of issues.

Hell if this is an defense, hopefully dazzleman won't ever attack Islam

[dazzleman]

I don't think we should stereotype Muslims, though I find myself having to fight my own mind from doing it all the time.

There are many peaceful Muslims, but overall, I don't believe Islam is a religion of peace.  Neither, incidentally, does Pres. Bush, though I understand the reasons he feels he must say it is.

That's the beauty of politics.  For the sake of a greater good, or your perception of a greater good, you must often advance opinions that you know not to be true.  Liberal Democrats do it all the time, on a whole host of issues.

Hell if this is an defense, hopefully dazzleman won't ever attack Islam

And that's one of the kindest things I've ever said about Islam.  In another post, I said that ever time I see a mosque, I pray that it's under FBI surveillance.

Unlike some others, I freely admit to my prejudices.  We all have them.  It's better to be honest about them than suppress them.  I certainly don't think that we owe all sorts of respect to Muslims that we don't give to the religion to which 90% of Americans subscribe to one degree or another.

[Jake]

I said that ever time I see a mosque, I pray that it's under FBI surveillance.

Missed that one

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well I've said that the Christians in Lebanon should kick all the Shiites out. Does that sound like I love Islam?

Also, find a single pro-Islam thing I've said, and name some liberals (not moderates) who defend Islam here. Yes, opebo and Marxist-Leninist are such big fans of Islam.

[dazzleman]

I said that ever time I see a mosque, I pray that it's under FBI surveillance.

Missed that one

Well, it's true.  I think that particularly for Europe, the spread of Islam is a problem.  The European approach of sticking its head in the sand, and allowing a hostile vyper to take root in its bosom, is suicidal.  Stupid liberals in this country (oh please don't be offended BRTD) want us to do the same thing.

It is an outrage that anybody would be prosecuted for writing a book, period.  No matter how offensive a book may be (and I wouldn't find a book attacking Islam offensive), a free society would allow it to be published.  Would a person be offended for writing a book attacking Christians?  Of course not.  With political correctness, WHICH IS LEFT WING BY DEFINITION (for your benefit BRTD, since you don't seem to understand that), there is alwyas a double standard.

[dazzleman]

well I've said that the Christians in Lebanon should kick all the Shiites out. Does that sound like I love Islam?

Also, find a single pro-Islam thing I've said, and name some liberals (not moderates) who defend Islam here. Yes, opebo and Marxist-Leninist are such big fans of Islam.

Why do you keep talking?  Nobody said you're a fan of Islam.  What is your point?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well I've said that the Christians in Lebanon should kick all the Shiites out. Does that sound like I love Islam?

Also, find a single pro-Islam thing I've said, and name some liberals (not moderates) who defend Islam here. Yes, opebo and Marxist-Leninist are such big fans of Islam.

Why do you keep talking?  Nobody said you're a fan of Islam.  What is your point?

you said that liberals want to make it illegal to criticize Islam.

[dazzleman]

well I've said that the Christians in Lebanon should kick all the Shiites out. Does that sound like I love Islam?

Also, find a single pro-Islam thing I've said, and name some liberals (not moderates) who defend Islam here. Yes, opebo and Marxist-Leninist are such big fans of Islam.

Why do you keep talking?  Nobody said you're a fan of Islam.  What is your point?

you said that liberals want to make it illegal to criticize Islam.

Liberals have had a tendency to try to stifle discussion of facts they don't find convenient.

Try mentioning the rate of illlegitimacy in blacks in front of a liberal audience.  They go into apoplexy; they just can't handle to hear the truth.

In Europe, politically correct people, on the left, can't handle negative discussion of Islam.  It's the 10,000 pound elephant in their living room - a hostile group of people who don't share their values, refuse to assimilate, and are outbreeding them at a fast rate.  Better to make sure not to tell the truth about them, at risk of going to prison.

Just because you're the exception doesn't mean that I'm wrong about liberals in general.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Then name the liberals on here who are defending Islam. I only see moderates like Lunar, JFK and angus.

[dazzleman]

Then name the liberals on here who are defending Islam. I only see moderates like Lunar, JFK and angus.

How many times do I have to tell you that I was not talking about liberals here, but in society at large?  Are you capable of comprehending anything that I have written?  Obviously not, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

[J.R. Brown]

I love America because you can criticise the government without being persecuted for doing so. So, freedom of speech and religion.

[MaC]

it's my home, for the most basic reason, and nomatter how bad it gets, or how much politicians f--- it up, it'll still always be mine.  Reasons why moreso than other countries,

1.gun ownership
2.closer to a free market than a lot of other countries
3.No socialized medicine

These three alone make it reason enough to not move to Canada, Europe, Japan, or Australia

4.Freedom to choose to or not to belief in a religion

This one makes it reason to not move to Iran, or other theocracies

5.One of the richest countries

I don't care as much about being rich, but having a good amount and being well off makes it reason enough not to move to African countries and many other countries.

6. Mostly English speaking, yet there's room for those who don't.

7.Any other freedoms provided in the Bill of Rights I didn't mention.

8.Federalism.  What's good for Delaware isn't necessarily good for Idaho.