The Maccabeeian triumph over the Seleucids

[The Mikado]

It's amazing in retrospect, is it not?  In an age particularly ill-suited to guerrilla warfare and insurgency (how many similar successful domestic rebellions in major empires in Antiquity can you think of?  Arminius' revolt vs the Romans maybe, but even then he had aid from the Germanian tribes from outside of Roman control) a cleric and his sons led a rebellion that destabilized the largest land empire west of Han China and won.  Matthias and his sons took on staggering, overwhelming odds.  For over four hundred years Judea had been ruled by foreigners and yet the Jews had been loyal subjects of the Persians and quiescent subjects of Alexander, Ptolemy, and the early Seleucids, yet Antiochus' conceit and arrogance that he could stamp out the faith of the Jews drove the region into one of its famous revolts, producing a vigorous Hasmonean state that even campaigned against and, under John Hyrcanus, subjugated its Samaritan, Decapolitan, and Idumaean neighbors. 

Should it still stun us today that the Jews succeeded in the 2nd century BCE against the Seleucids where they would fail so dramatically against the Romans in the 1st and 2nd centuries of the common era, with such devastating consequences?  Should the brutally militaristic and expansionist Hasmonean state that emerged be viewed as the natural reaction to Seleucid tyranny?  John Hyrcanus' conversion of the Idumaeans to Judaism a reaction to Antiochus' conversion of the Jews?  Should the eventual Hellenization and finally downfall of the Hasmoneans indicate that Greek ideas were just as contagious without a brutal god-king encouraging them at swordpoint?

I'm going to listen to a nice recording of Handel's Judas Maccabeus and reflect on this.  Happy Hannukah.

[TJ in Oregon]

Chapters 6 and 7 of 2 Maccabees has some of the most beautiful and vivid descriptions of men and women willing to suffer and die for God you'll find in the entire Old Testament. Antiochus Epiphanes was one of the very nastiest Old Testament enemies.

[Zioneer]

Honestly, I'd rather have Maccabees in the standard Bible, rather than Song of Solomon.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I don't really think Maccabees deserves to be in the Bible.  There's a reason, after all, that the Hebrews didn't include it in the Old Testament.  That being said, I'd like to read it some time.

While we're on the subject (and before Hanukkah ends), most scholars seem to agree that Antiochus Epiphanes was the "little horn" of Daniel 8, which is very different from the conservative SDA tradition I've been exposed to (that the horn is the Catholic church).  In fact, one SDA scholar was fired from teaching in the Adventist colleges for teaching this.  Yes, Jesus did discuss the "abomination that causes desolation" as occurring in the future, but He was using Daniel as a symbol to describe the trials of the church in a way the people would understand.  And there's nothing that says that Catholic church would be responsible for it.
 
Another article on this

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I don't really think Maccabees deserves to be in the Bible.  There's a reason, after all, that the Hebrews didn't include it in the Old Testament.  That being said, I'd like to read it some time.

The principal reason is that the Maccabees were not of the Davidic line and hence were not proper kings.

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Of course, if one takes a recurring view of prophecy there is no reason the horn could not be both Antiochus Epiphanes and the Catholic Church.  Still I have not undertake a sufficient study of Daniel to offer any interpretations of mine own.

[The Mikado]

I don't really think Maccabees deserves to be in the Bible.  There's a reason, after all, that the Hebrews didn't include it in the Old Testament.  That being said, I'd like to read it some time.

The principal reason is that the Maccabees were not of the Davidic line and hence were not proper kings.

Which proved to be quite handy to the Hasmoneans (a priestly Levite dynasty) as the family could monopolize the throne and the High Priesthood.  And also proved their great weakness as the Herod had the remaining Hasmoneans mutilated in various ways...the rule that a man with a physical disability could not hold the priesthood made it very easy to prevent the Hasmoneans from undermining Herod from the High Priest office.