Scott Walker doesn't have a college degree.

[Link]

Going into tens of thousands of dollars of debt for a $2 piece of paper makes you really smart.

My assumption is either you have never stepped foot on a college campus or you went to one and just drank till you dropped out.  I've been out of college for awhile and I look back at the absolutely remarkable learning opportunities I had both in and outside the classroom.  Besides graduate school I can't think of a more high yield and diverse learning experience I've ever had.  If all you think it is is a $2 piece of paper I won't even try and convince you otherwise.

And my comment wasn't in regards to the average American not having a college degree.  It was in regards to defending someone who had every opportunity to get a college degree who simply chose not to and then asked for a recommendation to the highest office in the land.

I've lived in countries where college degrees are scarcer than in the United States and even a poor dirty child living in squalor with little or no hope of attending college wouldn't pooh pooh a college education and would be very puzzled why someone in Walker's position dropped out.

[Link]

Realllllly gold news, everyone in Wisconsin has known this since 2009.

Question.  Why did he leave college?  I did a cursory search before I posted because I initially assumed there was perhaps some hard scrabble story behind it which would kind of justify it.  But after reading an apparently factually incorrect Time article I noticed the comments section filled with people from Wisconsin saying he was kicked out at some point either for cheating (his GPA was 2.59) or breaking some campus campaign rule multiple times.  Any insight?

[Badger]

Please people. He dropped out 3 months prior to graduating to get a great job.

[Link]

Please people. He dropped out 3 months prior to graduating to get a great job.

How could a C student all of a sudden do a YEAR's worth of work in 3 months?!  Just because you have hung out on a college campus for three years and nine months doesn't mean you are 3 months from graduation.  You actually have to ummm... attend class and, you know, pass.

[Maxwell]

I'm not a huge Walker fan, but this fact makes me substantially more likely to support him.

Um... what?

[useful idiot]

I'm not a huge Walker fan, but this fact makes me substantially more likely to support him.

Um... what?

While I don't necessarily agree, I can understand the sentiment. Walker had a choice to make, and made the right one. He's the governor of a large state, for pete's sake. I doubt whatever credits he had left would have made him any smarter or more equipped for his job. Would you guys think he'd accomplished more if he'd gotten a degree and a job as a part-time barista?

I think what is really at play here is that most people on this forum have accomplished very little in their lives, in a professional sense, compared to Walker. I'm certainly no exception. It's therefore nice to be able to hold something over him as if we're superior in some sense. Well I have a Bachelor's degree, and about half of my credits were an enormous waste of time and money. Walker is a helluva lot more qualified to be governor of Wisconsin than I am to be governor of Virginia. He has proven that by the fact that he's done it, regardless of whether or not you agree with his policies.

Would it be preferable that he had completed his degree? Sure, but he didn't and he's done ok for himself. Better than any of us have. I'd say the same thing about any other Dem senator or governor if the shoe were on the other foot.

[Franzl]

I'm not a huge Walker fan, but this fact makes me substantially more likely to support him.

I hope that his opponents make this an issue - a lot of Americans would rise up in his defense.

Massive negative. I wouldn't vote for a federal or statewide politician without a Bachelor's degree. I'm sure much of the education industry shares my sentiment.

Fixed.

I don't care either way about Scott Walker, but it's interesting that you take almost every opportunity to show how anti-education you are.

[Link]

Link, could you please list the substantive differences between a hypothetical President Scott Walker and a hypothetical President Scott Walker who didn't get the IBM job and stayed enrolled in college for his last three months?

Please don't repeat lies.  He had at least a year's worth of work before any kind of graduation could be considered.  Does dropping out of college with only part of a semester left sound in any way reasonable to you?  If what went on with this guy was legit would there be a need for people to repeatedly lie about it?

As to your question I suppose you're right.  If we lower the bar and don't even question our candidates for the highest office of the land about their incomplete education what could possibly go wrong...



There is a pattern with this guy and it sends the wrong message to our youth.  These are the same white privileged Republicans that are saying they aren't racist.  They just want black folks to get an education.  Well I guess that requirement doesn't apply to white people.

While I don't necessarily agree, I can understand the sentiment. Walker had a choice to make, and made the right one. He's the governor of a large state, for pete's sake. I doubt whatever credits he had left would have made him any smarter or more equipped for his job. Would you guys think he'd accomplished more if he'd gotten a degree and a job as a part-time barista?

What is this assumption that him finishing college would mean he wouldn't be governor?  Read the thread.  It was already posted that Robert Byrd finished law school while simultaneously being a sitting Senator... in the 60s.  Something probably happened.  The rumors seem to indicate that him not finishing his degree was not because of some mind blowing job opportunity (in the 90s that didn't require a college degree, LOL!) but maybe because he simply was barred from continuing.  And most people that graduate from college get a decent job.  Yes there are barista stories but I've never heard anyone say that the way to secure your post collegiate future is to drop out.

Seriously guys get the facts straight and use common sense.  Don't just pick whatever position you want and fill in a fantasy to support it.  And don't just believe some BS a politician feeds you to paint a rosy picture of themselves.  I don't know what happened but the story that he just hhaadddd to drop out and take an incredible job or else he couldn't become governor sounds like BS.

Of course a lot could be cleared up if he released his college transcripts...  But we know double standard Republicans will never ask for that.




I'm not sure but this could go the way of Romney's tax returns.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Link - I've paid thousands of dollars, full-price, for college tuition.  I personally place a high value on higher education, though there are certainly many other ways for one to educate themselves for a lot less money.

I have a passion for history and international relations, and almost all of what I know about those topics I didn't learn in an expensive college environment.

Walker may not have dropped out because he couldn't afford to continue, but a whole lot of Americans have.  Many Americans drop out because they have to take care of relatives or work to pay the family's bills. If someone drops out of college to take care of their family, would you deny them the option of ever seeking the office of President of the United States?

College education in our country is not universal, it is not equally available to everyone, and it may not be the best choice for everyone.

We should examine candidates for President, or Governor, or Deputy Dog Catcher based on their values, priorities, and their ability to do the job.  You can disagree with Walker on the first two, but there is no reason to think that he doesn't have the ability to do the job as well as anyone who has a degree.

Ditto everything useful idiot said.

[pbrower2a]

Realllllly gold news, everyone in Wisconsin has known this since 2009.

Question.  Why did he leave college?  I did a cursory search before I posted because I initially assumed there was perhaps some hard scrabble story behind it which would kind of justify it.  But after reading an apparently factually incorrect Time article I noticed the comments section filled with people from Wisconsin saying he was kicked out at some point either for cheating (his GPA was 2.59) or breaking some campus campaign rule multiple times.  Any insight?

With a 2.59 GPA even from a great college your first post-college job is likely to be the sort that you could have taken is one that requires at most a high-school diploma -- like retail sales, fast food, or factory work.

If he got kicked out for cheating in a college election.. that portends something, doesn't it? "Winning at all costs" implies that one eventually debases the object that one wins, which explains why the IOOC takes away medals from people who get caught cheating with performance-enhancing drugs. Sure, Vince Lombardi may have said "Winning isn't everything -- it's the only thing", but by all accounts he did not cheat.

Scott Walker has shown himself an abrasive, ruthless character. Even with brilliance that would make him at best a new Richard Nixon, and at worst...

I look at his abrasive anti-intellectualism directed at degreed professionals. Schoolteachers may not be the models of top brains, but any community that wants to keep from becoming a cheap-labor community had better invest in education. Walker wants to proletarize the middle class so that they can be economic peers of the working poor... and so that he can get huge support from people who can profit from Wisconsin as a place of Third World pay and working conditions.  If he would do that to Wisconsin, he would do that to America.   

[Link]

I personally place a high value on higher education...

You just called a college degree a $2 piece of paper.  That is not the hallmark of someone who places "a high value on higher education..."

I take you at your word but you can't be surprised by people's reactions.

Walker may not have dropped out because he couldn't afford to continue, but a whole lot of Americans have.  Many Americans drop out because they have to take care of relatives or work to pay the family's bills. If someone drops out of college to take care of their family, would you deny them the option of ever seeking the office of President of the United States?

This thread has gone on for three pages.  Let's get something 100% straight before we continue.  Scott Walker was not leading some hardscrabble life where he had to leave school just to be able to feed himself.  We all know people leave school for a myriad of reasons.  But we aren't talking about a myriad of people.  We are talking about Scott Walker.  Now do you want to talk about Scott Walker or do you wish to continue discussing a strawman?

The fact of the matter is I would probably guess 90% of the people in this thread didn't even do a cursory overview of the facts before commenting.  I'm pretty sure that's why the responses started to dry up once I posted what I found.  It's a lot different picture than the poor kid from a tough background does what he needs to do to make good fantasy.

You know when the reports first hit I thought it was weird that he would just pick a 20 something year old college drop out with no experience and a couple of convictions for an $85,000+ position supervising dozens of people.  But this thread at very least has provided some explanation for that inexplicable appointment.

[TNF]

If this is that big a deal for you, then you're basically an elitist.

Weirdly enough, I agree with Supersonic. There are a lot of reasons that make me hate Scott Walker, but this isn't one of them, nor should it be one on which he should be attacked for, imo. This country would be FAR better off if we just banned Ivy Leaguers from holding office.

[Link]

If this is that big a deal for you, then you're basically an elitist.

Weirdly enough, I agree with Supersonic. There are a lot of reasons that make me hate Scott Walker, but this isn't one of them, nor should it be one on which he should be attacked for, imo. This country would be FAR better off if we just banned Ivy Leaguers from holding office.

You're late to the party.  The controversy isn't that he doesn't have a college degree... it's why.  The last part is what no one wants to touch.

[IceSpear]

Bush proved that you can get a prestigious degree just by being well connected, so who really cares?

[Cory]

I think what is really at play here is that most people on this forum have accomplished very little in their lives, in a professional sense, compared to Walker. I'm certainly no exception. It's therefore nice to be able to hold something over him as if we're superior in some sense. Well I have a Bachelor's degree, and about half of my credits were an enormous waste of time and money. Walker is a helluva lot more qualified to be governor of Wisconsin than I am to be governor of Virginia. He has proven that by the fact that he's done it, regardless of whether or not you agree with his policies.

This. It's beyond obvious.

[Meeker]

No one cares about this

[Lupo]

Bush proved that you can get a prestigious degree just by being well connected, so who really cares?

Lol he got a Harvard MBA.  They don't just hand those things house because you have an important last name.

With regard to Walker, I used to think it was a negative but now I think it could work as a positive.  Many people are beginning to realize that a bachelor's degree doesn't have as much value as it used to and high school students shouldn't feel obligated to go to college.  There appears a growing push toward vocational training like we had years ago.  This doesn't necessarily apply to Scott Walker, as he spent quite a few years in college, but it would make an interesting discussion point.

[Mr. Illini]

It is largely irrelevant in terms of you can be very smart and successful without a degree, but I would be hesitant to vote for a President without one because I feel like having one is a huge plus regardless.

But there's no way in hell I'd vote for him even if he did have one. The only plus of him winning the Presidency would be that it would mean him getting out of the Midwest and away from my state.

Harsh, I know.

[Mordecai]

No, because that would be moving the baseline up. Post graduate education is definitely a plus in my opinion, because it solidifies the academic credentials they have. But that would be part of a larger resume that would include experience as well (which, for a lot of people, will in a way be dependent on their college degree, since many professional jobs require one)

Not really, no. The bachelor's degree is the baseline for consideration and then when you look at the two candidates, you look above the baseline.

Education is just a part of the resume, but it is still an important part regardless and shouldn't be dismissed just because some people dislike "elitism."

Education isn't synonymous with a college degree. You can have not gone to college and still be educated. Like through life experience, a career in the private sector and/or a career in government. Learning doesn't end when you leave college.

No, it wouldn't. Campaigning/getting votes does not reflect your ability to be a good President, and it certainly doesn't indicate that you are an exceptionally intelligent or capable individual. A lot of elections have personal charisma/likability and style playing a huge role in the success of the candidate, not necessarily substance.

Yes it would. If they are able to beat every candidate in their party primaries and then beat the other guy in the general election without a college degree that's pretty exceptional. It would also basically guarantee that they were in your words "an exceptionally bright person" to be in that position, unless you seriously think some "Average Joe" could actually win the party nomination and the general election (lol).

That's like saying if you give a starving homeless guy a sandwich that means you also want to feed people sandwiches until they are morbidly obese.  Look up the law of diminishing return and marginal utility.  This is why people need to go to school.

Lol no. If a bachelor's degree is indeed the accepted "baseline" for any sort of meaningful job then postgraduate education would be preferred right? That's not a huge leap from starving to obese.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Wow, a college drop out with a 2.59 GPA, that's some impressive qualifications for President there.

[pbrower2a]

Bush proved that you can get a prestigious degree just by being well connected, so who really cares?

Lol he got a Harvard MBA.  They don't just hand those things house because you have an important last name.

It could also be that an MBA is completely irrelevant to political leadership. Contemporary models of management offer no understanding of human nature other than the boss-subordinate model in which the boss has all the power and the subordinate has only the right to resign. We have largely elected attorneys, whose training as a rule is very generalist. Attorneys must understand human nature in ways that scientists, engineers, surgeons, and accountants don't even if such people are just as intelligent as attorneys on the whole. Even military men know the limitations of managerial power.

Dubya may be the last MBA grad that we have for President for a very long time. We are more likely to elect a Professor of German Literature as President than an MBA.

The last non-college President was Harry Truman. But as an exception he explains the rule. He was much more erudite than the average. He never quit learning. As the one who had read every book in the local library around 1900 he is the sort of person who would get offers too good to refuse from first-rate universities, and he would do well. he would probably go to law school and finish very high in the standings. A solid high-school education was a rarity a century ago (a high-school education became the norm in America only during the Great Depression), let alone college.     

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Scott Walker is not Harry Truman. Of course a bachelor's degree no longer means what it used to. (But know well: many of the people with college degrees a century ago were clergy who got inexpensive education of little value in any other career). The bulk of college degrees a century ago were still heavily from Ivy League with a smattering of degrees from land-grant colleges that had not bloated into the educational behemoths that they now are (like the Universities of California, Florida, Michigan, and Texas). Real intellectual  curiosity has not expanded as much as the university system has expanded.

Scott Walker is one of those kiss-up, kick-down leaders who might get something done but does so at great cost to any good will. He has shown much resentment of degreed professionals who fail to 'know their places'  in a New Order in which most people suffer for the greed of commercial elites who see their own indulgence and personal power as the sole measure of social virtue. He can appeal to people who resent having had their grammar corrected in the presence of other students -- the GOP is very good at exploiting resentment by the working poor toward the American intelligentsia. But what can that achieve?

Scott Walker could be the Knight in Shining Armor for those powerful people who believe that their greed and economic cruelty aren't appreciated adequately for their efficacy. He might also offend those middle-class types who know that those economic elites have no use for them.

   

[Cobbler]

Not really, no. The bachelor's degree is the baseline for consideration and then when you look at the two candidates, you look above the baseline.

No, because as I have said (but you didn't acknowledge clearly), there are other things to look at other than education, like experiences in their career.

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I explicitly said in a previous post that a career in the private sector or government can counter having not gone to college. I'm not sure if you ignored that or just simply didn't read it, but I said it.

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I'll ignore the condescending "lol". Having an exceptional campaign staff doesn't make you an exceptionally bright person. Like I said, charisma and likability play a much larger role in campaigns. Ever heard the saying that people like to "vote for the guy they would want to have a beer with"?

[Mister Mets]

Wow, a college drop out with a 2.59 GPA, that's some impressive qualifications for President there.

He'll presumably have won three elections as Governor of a swing state.

Before that, he spent eight years as executive of a county with a population greater than that of Delaware.

Bush proved that you can get a prestigious degree just by being well connected, so who really cares?

Lol he got a Harvard MBA.  They don't just hand those things house because you have an important last name.

With regard to Walker, I used to think it was a negative but now I think it could work as a positive.  Many people are beginning to realize that a bachelor's degree doesn't have as much value as it used to and high school students shouldn't feel obligated to go to college.  There appears a growing push toward vocational training like we had years ago.  This doesn't necessarily apply to Scott Walker, as he spent quite a few years in college, but it would make an interesting discussion point.

It's a negative if Walker says something stupid about college. And there will be efforts to bait him into it.

It's a positive if any of his opponents say anything elitist and hostile about it.

[courts]

a clear positive. the fact the liberals are already sneering and clutching their purses is just further confirmation

[Nichlemn]

Even if we were to grant that this reflects poorly on Walker (and I don't think it does), many Presidents have done things in their youths that wouldn't exactly make them role models (notably drug usage). Obama's cocaine usage should have disqualified him, right?