UM Pastor found guilty on 2 counts for presiding at his son’s wedding

[Free Speech Enjoyer]

http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2013/11/18/umpastorguiltyon2counts/

His sentencing is today.  I'm praying hard for him.  I've heard a lot of folks say the UMC is moving in a more progressive direction, but I'm just not seeing it.  Several months ago a similar story broke out and I asked a prominent UM pastor where he thinks his church is headed.  He predicted a schism.  For now, the UMC continues to be under the rule of those who cater to the prejudiced and the ignorant.  At this point, progressives might want to consider a plan B, through I say that with respect to those Christians whose instincts protest strongly against schism, especially for a once great church like the UMC.

[MaxQue]

http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2013/11/18/umpastorguiltyon2counts/

His sentencing is today.  I'm praying hard for him.  I've heard a lot of folks say the UMC is moving in a more progressive direction, but I'm just not seeing it.  Several months ago a similar story broke out and I asked a prominent UM pastor where he thinks his church is headed.  He predicted a schism.  For now, the UMC continues to be under the rule of those who cater to the prejudiced and the ignorant.  At this point, progressives might want to consider a plan B, through I say that with respect to those Christians whose instincts protest strongly against schism, especially for a once great church like the UMC.

I suppose you are on the "progressive" side?

[Free Speech Enjoyer]

http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2013/11/18/umpastorguiltyon2counts/

His sentencing is today.  I'm praying hard for him.  I've heard a lot of folks say the UMC is moving in a more progressive direction, but I'm just not seeing it.  Several months ago a similar story broke out and I asked a prominent UM pastor where he thinks his church is headed.  He predicted a schism.  For now, the UMC continues to be under the rule of those who cater to the prejudiced and the ignorant.  At this point, progressives might want to consider a plan B, through I say that with respect to those Christians whose instincts protest strongly against schism, especially for a once great church like the UMC.

I suppose you are on the "progressive" side?

Yes.

[afleitch]

A father loves his son and that is more important to him than whatever is thought of him in a professional capacity. I've never understood how some Christians have such an inability to understand what love is when it stands before them, when a life is shared with love and when that love continues in illness and death just because it is two men or two women. How many countless lives have to be lived out from marriage to grave in front of them? Others, like this pastor get it without any effort and sadly have to suffer the institutional consequences.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

To me, the question here is did he perform the service while in pastoral garb?  I.e., was it something he did in his capacity as father or as pastor?  If it's in the latter then yeah, I can't fault the UMC for sanctioning him for acting contrary to its policies.

[DC Al Fine]

To me, the question here is did he perform the service while in pastoral garb?  I.e., was it something he did in his capacity as father or as pastor?  If it's in the latter then yeah, I can't fault the UMC for sanctioning him for acting contrary to its policies.

It's ultimately an issue of church discipline. Churches should have some control over what their ministers do/preach publicly as ministers of that church. I'd expect the same from Scott's church if his minister suddenly started preaching orthodox Calvinism.

I agree with Scott that the UMC will eventually suffer a schism. Their tent is just too big.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

To me, the question here is did he perform the service while in pastoral garb?  I.e., was it something he did in his capacity as father or as pastor?  If it's in the latter then yeah, I can't fault the UMC for sanctioning him for acting contrary to its policies.

It's ultimately an issue of church discipline. Churches should have some control over what their ministers do/preach publicly as ministers of that church. I'd expect the same from Scott's church if his minister suddenly started preaching orthodox Calvinism.

I agree with Scott that the UMC will eventually suffer a schism. Their tent is just too big.

I don't see a schism in the immediate future of the UMC.  What is more likely to happen for the next decade or two is an erosion in membership to other theologically liberal churches that have chosen to walk the path towards LGBT inclusiveness.

[useful idiot]

http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2013/11/18/umpastorguiltyon2counts/

His sentencing is today.  I'm praying hard for him.  I've heard a lot of folks say the UMC is moving in a more progressive direction, but I'm just not seeing it.  Several months ago a similar story broke out and I asked a prominent UM pastor where he thinks his church is headed.  He predicted a schism.  For now, the UMC continues to be under the rule of those who cater to the prejudiced and the ignorant.  At this point, progressives might want to consider a plan B, through I say that with respect to those Christians whose instincts protest strongly against schism, especially for a once great church like the UMC.

Quite the contrary. It's fairly clear that the denominational bureaucracy is getting more conservative and more opposed to the idea of practicing homosexuality. The UMC, unlike most mainline denoms, is actually a global denomination; so there are no differences in structure between nations (the CofE and ECUSA in the Anglican Communion, for example. The English Methodist Church and the UMC aren't affiliated in the same way). The UMC is growing far more in majority-world nations, where the population and clergy is uniformly more conservative.

Even within the United States Methodism has taken a turn towards conservatism. Methodism in the South has always had a more conservative flavor than Methodist churches in the North and West. Methodist churches in the South aren't showing the disastrous decline in membership that those elsewhere are. The younger pastors within the UMC also tend to be more conservative than the previous generation of clergy. Asbury Seminary, which is a quite conservative Wesleyan seminary mostly made up of evangelical United Methodists, turns out more UMC pastors than any other; more than most official UMC seminaries combined. The two most attended official seminaries are Duke and SMU, which are among the more conservative official seminaries. The president of Duke wrote a scathing condemnation of homosexuality and practicing homosexual pastors in his ethics book, for instance. Most of these graduating pastors are going to congregations in the South and southern Midwest, where the most influence is to be had.

Does that mean that the UMC is going to be thoroughly evangelical in the next 20 years? Definitely not. But it means that it isn't going to go the path of the other mainline denominations for at least another few decades, and the pro-gay activists that show up to these trials and to the general conference every four years are going to have less and less to cheer about...

[afleitch]

and the pro-gay activists that show up to these trials and to the general conference every four years are going to have less and less to cheer about...

And won't you be a happy bunny

[Cassius]

A father loves his son and that is more important to him than whatever is thought of him in a professional capacity. I've never understood how some Christians have such an inability to understand what love is when it stands before them, when a life is shared with love and when that love continues in illness and death just because it is two men or two women. How many countless lives have to be lived out from marriage to grave in front of them? Others, like this pastor get it without any effort and sadly have to suffer the institutional consequences.

Well, if he wants to marry his son then he should leave this particular Church and join another, more pro-gay one. Otherwise he should sit tight and conform to the rules of the Church that he belongs to. He is

[useful idiot]

and the pro-gay activists that show up to these trials and to the general conference every four years are going to have less and less to cheer about...

And won't you be a happy bunny

Whether they cheer or not is inconsequential to me...

[ilikeverin]

To me, the question here is did he perform the service while in pastoral garb?  I.e., was it something he did in his capacity as father or as pastor?  If it's in the latter then yeah, I can't fault the UMC for sanctioning him for acting contrary to its policies.

It's ultimately an issue of church discipline. Churches should have some control over what their ministers do/preach publicly as ministers of that church. I'd expect the same from Scott's church if his minister suddenly started preaching orthodox Calvinism.

I agree with Scott that the UMC will eventually suffer a schism. Their tent is just too big.

I don't see a schism in the immediate future of the UMC.  What is more likely to happen for the next decade or two is an erosion in membership to other theologically liberal churches that have chosen to walk the path towards LGBT inclusiveness.

Heyo, Methodist-turned-Episcopalian checking in!  At least through 2017, anyway.  We'll see what happens when I move away from my current church.

[afleitch]

He was defrocked.

[Free Speech Enjoyer]

Good on the pastor for not surrendering his values.  The UCC/ECUSA/ELCA will be lucky to have him depending where he goes.

[ilikeverin]

Good on the pastor for not surrendering his values.  The UCC/ECUSA/ELCA will be lucky to have him depending where he goes.

Quite possibly, he might be going to California: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20131221_ap_3535632315e649a1adedf89ea622d841.html

The UMC is looking more brittle than I was expecting.  This is very interesting.  Supporters of LGBT equality might be able to make something of this.

[tik 🪀✨]

What about forgiveness?

“He (Schaefer) kept it silent and nobody knew,” Boger said. “This is not a vendetta. This is about integrity, honesty and trust. The past six years have been a lie.”

When asked how he feels about his pastor today, Boger replied, “When I see him, I see a clerical colar with ‘shattered’ across it.”

I don't miss being in the company of spiteful, negative Christians. I hope he can find a better place.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

What about forgiveness?

“He (Schaefer) kept it silent and nobody knew,” Boger said. “This is not a vendetta. This is about integrity, honesty and trust. The past six years have been a lie.”

When asked how he feels about his pastor today, Boger replied, “When I see him, I see a clerical colar with ‘shattered’ across it.”

I don't miss being in the company of spiteful, negative Christians. I hope he can find a better place.

While he did so for what could be considered one of the best reasons, Schaefer broke his commitment to uphold a certain set of actions and beliefs.  I call to your attention Matthew 10:37 and Luke 14:26 in the Synoptics in which Jesus warns that his followers may at times have to put their faith above their love of family.  Since it was such an important part of his belief that he be able to perform his son's wedding, he should have left the UMC six years ago and found that better place you mentioned that found such an action compatible with teachings of Christ.  Christ did not promise a life of ease to those who followed him.