Is Barack Obama's personality crippling his presidency?

[Conflicted Progressive]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

OK, I'm pretty sure you're just trolling us all now.  Obama should've used his dictatorial powers or else ESP to force dozens of Senators and Representatives into voting for single-payer, despite them having never given any indication that they would, and even though it took SO much wrangling just to get Obamacare.

Horse heads etc should have been used.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

OK, I'm pretty sure you're just trolling us all now.  Obama should've used his dictatorial powers or else ESP to force dozens of Senators and Representatives into voting for single-payer, despite them having never given any indication that they would, and even though it took SO much wrangling just to get Obamacare.

Again, I am wondering if you all read my last post? Did you just bold a random sentence and not read it? If LBJ rose from the grave and was elected in 2008, he would have got this done. Obama can bully these people, using the leadership and DCCC. He can cut them off. He can tell them that they won't get any support against the inevitable Tea Party wave in 2010. He needs to do a political suicide bombing-what does 20 seats matter when you have lost the House in a landslide? If they do vote against him, and he losses, well, too hell with them. He would have fought and lost.

The ACA is imploding. It has been disaster after disaster. Most Teabaggers think the ACA IS single payer. There is not much of a difference here. He has achieved nothing, and is still hated as if he did achieve something. Is that really any different than trying (and failing) to pass single payer?

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

OK, I'm pretty sure you're just trolling us all now.  Obama should've used his dictatorial powers or else ESP to force dozens of Senators and Representatives into voting for single-payer, despite them having never given any indication that they would, and even though it took SO much wrangling just to get Obamacare.

Horse heads etc should have been used.

Or a dead fish in the mail.

[RogueBeaver]

LBJ lost his domestic power when the conservative coalition returned in '66, same with FDR in '38.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

LBJ lost his domestic power when the conservative coalition returned in '66, same with FDR in '38.

And Obama would have lost his in 2010 regardless if he pushed single payer or not.

[7,052,770]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

OK, I'm pretty sure you're just trolling us all now.  Obama should've used his dictatorial powers or else ESP to force dozens of Senators and Representatives into voting for single-payer, despite them having never given any indication that they would, and even though it took SO much wrangling just to get Obamacare.

Again, I am wondering if you all read my last post? Did you just bold a random sentence and not read it? If LBJ rose from the grave and was elected in 2008, he would have got this done. Obama can bully these people, using the leadership and DCCC. He can cut them off. He can tell them that they won't get any support against the inevitable Tea Party wave in 2010. He needs to do a political suicide bombing-what does 20 seats matter when you have lost the House in a landslide? If they do vote against him, and he losses, well, too hell with them. He would have fought and lost.

Again, you can't just force people in Congress to vote how you want them to.  I don't really know what else to tell you.  Single payer could not have been done, period.  There is absolutely no way it could have happened.  The ghost of LBJ couldn't have done it.  You can twist a few arms here and there (which is what it took to pass Obamacare), but you can't twist the arms of literally half of your caucus.  How many Democratic representatives support single-payer?  Less than 100?  Sure, he could have gotten some of the 100+ to go along with it, but you can't force something through that less than half of your party publically supports.

This is as ridiculous as saying Obama could have forced a nationwide gay marriage approval in 2008.  Or that Bush should have forced through a nationwide ban on gay marriage.  If you are serious about all of this, it's probably the most mind-numbing stupid point any serious, generally-respected poster has tried to make in years.

The ACA is imploding.

... False?

It has been disaster after disaster.

The glitchy website has been unfortunate, but no one will care about that once it's working.  Obviously, if it never works, that's a disaster, but there's no reason to think that's the case.

Most Teabaggers think the ACA IS single payer.

That's not a literally true fact.  They may think it's as bad as single payer, but I don't think very many people are under the impression that they will be going on Medicare next year.

There is not much of a difference here. He has achieved nothing, and is still hated as if he did achieve something. Is that really any different than trying (and failing) to pass single payer?

Objectively, Obama has transformed the American health insurance system.  Like it or not, it is incomprehensible that someone could seriously describe it as "achieving nothing."  On the other hand, if Obama had tried to pass single payer, there is a 100% chance that it would have failed and he would have achieved nothing.  And the backlash from that colossal failure would have likely prevented any chance of passing Obamacare afterward.

[Cory]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

That's not how real life works.

[Beet]

He has achieved nothing, and is still hated as if he did achieve something.

No, that was 1994.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

OK, I'm pretty sure you're just trolling us all now.  Obama should've used his dictatorial powers or else ESP to force dozens of Senators and Representatives into voting for single-payer, despite them having never given any indication that they would, and even though it took SO much wrangling just to get Obamacare.

This is how I know you cannot be serious.

No President can MAKE votes appear, Johnson had two things going for him, he was a master of the Senate and had massive good-will in the aftermath of Kennedy's death to get those things done.

I love this idea, Johnson NEVER threatened to burn the place down, sure he pushed and intimidated people into it and do I think Johnson could do it now? Not a chance. Plus Johnson didn't do it all himself. He had Hubert Humphrey who was the real internal driving force for the Civil Rights Bill for example. HHH had a hell of time keeping the votes in line...

Obama's personality is different, he's not Johnson, he's not comfortable trying to intimidate people, he's not going to whip his dick out when he needs to make a point... so in some ways I agree with the idea that Obama's personality being more considered and seeking agreement through logic and evidence makes it difficult to deal with the mouth-breathers and cousin-humpers that make up the GOP base today...

I know you're saying we're not reading what you're writing... but we are, the premise is wrong, therefore the conclusion is wrong. The long and short of it is this... Obama is not Johnson, the Congress is even more ideological and divided than it was in 1964/5... I have no faith that a human iron bar like LBJ could get anything passed today.

The ACA will be popular in 2016... and watch the GOP fall in line behind it. The hyperbole over this is a joke... "it's a failure!!!" Actually it's not... for a large-scale government program roll-out requiring online cooperation from all states... it's actually gone pretty bloody well. The Government needs to address those who have (more than likely) been kicked off their insurance under false pretenses. There will always been teething problems and there have been, but in the end, more people who need it have access to healthcare and anyone who knows anything about healthcare policy will tell you that access is the key.

Plus, those systems dealing with supportive states like NJ, KY, IL, OR are actually going well, what's causing more headaches are the states that are not only not on-board but are actively trying to pull it down...

The fact that Obama is considered by you as having achieved nothing is just a sign of your blinkered view of things, not evidence.

[Stranger in a strange land]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

That's not how real life works.

It's certainly not how American politics works. For all of its many flaws, America is still a democracy, and the president can't "make" votes exist in congress.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

That's not how real life works.

You believe in eugenics. You shouldn't be lecturing me on "real life" at all.

He has achieved nothing, and is still hated as if he did achieve something.

No, that was 1994.

It can be argued that 2010 was a repeat of 1994 in many more ways than just the GOP retaking the House.

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

That's not how real life works.

It's certainly not how American politics works. For all of its many flaws, America is still a democracy, and the president can't "make" votes exist in congress.

It’s not official on paper, but arm wrangling is as concrete in politics as voting is. That is how it works.

A more detailed response to Harry and Polnut is in the pipeline, but I have some other things to get out of the way first.

[Cory]

You believe in eugenics. You shouldn't be lecturing me on "real life" at all.

For the millionth time: Allowing parents to voluntarily choose to make their child better and brighter via the use of genetic enhancement is not comparable to to Nazi or early American "eugenics". It it imperative that this be made available to everyone as soon as it becomes an issue or face a Gattaca society.

Also you dodged the fact that your statement was utterly absurd and demonstrated a lack of understanding of how parliamentary process works in real life.

[Bacon King]

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

That's not how real life works.

That's not even how the analogy works

"Since they cut back my hours at work it looks like we won't have the money to remodel the kitchen this year BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND"

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You believe in eugenics. You shouldn't be lecturing me on "real life" at all.

For the millionth time: Allowing parents to voluntarily choose to make their child better and brighter via the use of genetic enhancement is not comparable to to Nazi or early American "eugenics". It it imperative that this be made available to everyone as soon as it becomes an issue or face a Gattaca society.

Also you dodged the fact that your statement was utterly absurd and demonstrated a lack of understanding of how parliamentary process works in real life.

Every parliament and legislative body has a leadership system within. People can be punished by the leadership on key issues. You haven’t explained what I apparently don’t know. None of you have. Regardless if the votes didn’t exist or did exist, arm wrangling is still a central aspect to politics. Only the fringes are able to hold on with relative impunity (see Ron Paul) and the party had tried to primary him/cut him loose numerous times!

I am aware that the votes didn't exist. You make them exist. And if you can't get the renovations, you might as well burn the damn house down.

That's not how real life works.

That's not even how the analogy works

"Since they cut back my hours at work it looks like we won't have the money to remodel the kitchen this year BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND"

Down to the gwound!

[badgate]

Chairman, you've been watching too much of The West Wing if you believe all Obama needed to do was "lead more" or "reach out to Congress more."





What really bothers me about that argument is they are basically saying "Well, if Obama weren't an introvert, we'd work with him!"

[Beet]

He has achieved nothing, and is still hated as if he did achieve something.

No, that was 1994.

It can be argued that 2010 was a repeat of 1994 in many more ways than just the GOP retaking the House.
[/quote]

No, that was pretty much it. The difference between 2010 and 1994 is that in 2010 the Dems at least salvaged some dignity by passing the ACA. In fact that's one of the main reasons I supported continuing to pass the ACA even after MA-Spec.