Old Left v. New Left

[TNF]

Old Left by far.

[PJ]

NOTA

Old Left was too populistic and New Left is too centrist.

Edit: If I had to choose, New Left

[Napoleon]

NOTA

Old Left was too populistic and New Left is too centrist.

Edit: If I had to choose, New Left

[Lambsbread]

NOTA

Old Left was too populistic and New Left is too centrist.

Edit: If I had to choose, New Left

[Goldwater]

Probably the new left.

[Mechaman]

If you mean "New Left" as in the types that emerged in the 1960's and 1970's then I would choose that.  If you mean the elitist paternalistic plutocratic neoliberals who have bent over and taken it and laid down for Reagonomics, then I would have to go with "Old Left" by far.

And frankly, given how horrible this country has turned out due to the neoliberal consensus, it's about goddamn time we had left wing populism.  The fact that "populism" has been stolen by right wingers should be mourned by any person who even pretends to care about social justice.  Unless you think that having people who left the Republican Party over abortion and guns are best fit to lead the movement.

[TNF]

NOTA

Old Left was too populistic and New Left is too centrist.

Edit: If I had to choose, New Left

How do you oppose populism and count yourself as a member of the Left?

[PJ]

NOTA

Old Left was too populistic and New Left is too centrist.

Edit: If I had to choose, New Left

How do you oppose populism and count yourself as a member of the Left?

I don't like social conservatism. I'd still take populism over libertarianism but neither is an appealing ideology.

[bedstuy]

To be clear, what are your definitions of each?  While I think we can all agree on what the old left is, I think the New Left might be a foreign concept to some people.  The New Left certainly isn't centrist or at all involved in politics today.

To me, the New Left was a political movement in the 60s and 70s.  It was about moving away from actual political organizing and labor organizing and into social movements like anti-Colonialism, feminism, anarchism, gay rights, radical environmentalism and various forms of critical theory.  I think the legacy of the New Left is feminism and gay rights acceptance in the US, which is good.  But, legacy of the New Left is mostly negative because it moved left-wing activism into this insular university niche of focus on academia and the personal lives of a few intellectuals.  That basically guaranteed that the left would fade from any influence because politics is about power, not sitting around at Berkeley writing poems about how terrible anyone with power is.

[TNF]

NOTA

Old Left was too populistic and New Left is too centrist.

Edit: If I had to choose, New Left

How do you oppose populism and count yourself as a member of the Left?

I don't like social conservatism. I'd still take populism over libertarianism but neither is an appealing ideology.

Populism =/= social conservatism

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I think the Old Left was more principled and honest in their views. If I have a choice between three socialists, I am going to vote for the socialist who says he is actually a socialist instead of hiding behind other labels.

[Darth Plagueis]

I think the Old Left was more principled and honest in their views. If I have a choice between three socialists, I am going to vote for the socialist who says he is actually a socialist instead of hiding behind other labels.

This.

Anyways, voted Old Left. The New Left is a joke and a bunch of trolls (look at the 60s/70s vile peaces of human trash). They only talk about issues like Gay Marriage, to distract/avoid us from talking about the real issues like how Obamacare is failing and the economy. The Old Left was socialist, obviously but at least they admitted it. People like Obama and so fourth just hide behind other labels.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What exactly do you mean by either term? This needs to be established before any meaningful discussion is possible, and it's as necessary (actually more so) with the former term as the latter. There were at least distinct political movements called the New Left (the best known of which needs no particular introduction, but another would be a very distinct circle of non (though in reality often ex) Communist Marxists in the 1960s; E.P. Thompson, Ralph Miliband, Raymond Williams and so on), but that's not the case with this supposed 'Old Left'. I question whether Tankies have much in common with Labourist social democrats (other than hostility towards Trots, obviously).

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

I think the Old Left was more principled and honest in their views. If I have a choice between three socialists, I am going to vote for the socialist who says he is actually a socialist instead of hiding behind other labels.

This.

Anyways, voted Old Left. The New Left is a joke and a bunch of trolls (look at the 60s/70s vile peaces of human trash). They only talk about issues like Gay Marriage, to distract/avoid us from talking about the real issues like how Obamacare is failing and the economy. The Old Left was socialist, obviously but at least they admitted it. People like Obama and so fourth just hide behind other labels.

Yeah.  Democrats only talk about gay marriage.  Not health care.  Not taxes.  Not gun control.  Not defense spending.  Gay marriage.  We're a one-issue party and proud of it.  It's good to see you have it all figured out.

[Hifly]

Old Left. I appreciate socially conservative views being tolerated.

[Arturo Belano]

Definitely Old Left.

[Leftbehind]

Old Left by far.

[Oak Hills]

Old Left by far.

[Oakvale]

The Old Left (we're talking about this in the context of the United States I guess?) was horrible, ultra-white and run by hacks in smoke-filled backrooms. To summarise the question at hand, George McGovern > Hubert Humphrey.

New Left by a mile.

[Lief 🗽]

The Old Left (we're talking about this in the context of the United States I guess?) was horrible, ultra-white and run by hacks in smoke-filled backrooms. To summarise the question at hand, George McGovern > Hubert Humphrey.

New Left by a mile.

It's not really fair to compare the nadir of the Old Left to the best of the New Left. And McGovern became a right-wing libertarian by the time he died anyway.

[ElectionsGuy]

Old Left by far.

[TJ in Oregon]

I think the Old Left was more principled and honest in their views. If I have a choice between three socialists, I am going to vote for the socialist who says he is actually a socialist instead of hiding behind other labels.

The first part of this is correct, and thus I voted for the Old Left. But it's not because the New Left is disingenuously actually socialists in disguise, it's because the New Left is an ideology based on narcissism that says whatever the individual wants becomes truth. Also, the Green movement is just awful. My goodness the number of times I meet people in this town that think GMOs cause cancer and child vaccinations are some horrible government instrument of control over the masses. The New Left is like some kind of bizarro world. My goodness, if it's between that and the Trotskyists, at least the Trotskyists were such because they actually believed in it rather than to hamfist everything into some internet-driven concept of "progressivism" based on getting the social acceptability of all their friends first. Given the choice between the Green and Socialist Parties, I'd probably vote for the Socialists. [/rant]

[traininthedistance]

I think the Old Left was more principled and honest in their views. If I have a choice between three socialists, I am going to vote for the socialist who says he is actually a socialist instead of hiding behind other labels.

This.

Anyways, voted Old Left. The New Left is a joke and a bunch of trolls (look at the 60s/70s vile peaces of human trash). They only talk about issues like Gay Marriage, to distract/avoid us from talking about the real issues like how Obamacare is failing and the economy. The Old Left was socialist, obviously but at least they admitted it. People like Obama and so fourth just hide behind other labels.

Yeah.  Democrats only talk about gay marriage.  Not health care.  Not taxes.  Not gun control.  Not defense spending.  Gay marriage.  We're a one-issue party and proud of it.  It's good to see you have it all figured out.

I'm reminded of that crazy far-left homophobe from North Carolina whose name I forget.

Anyway, I will sort-of concur with Al that the premise of this question is flawed not only because of widespread confusion as to what is meant by "new left", but also because we need a solid working definition of Old Left as well.  I guess, even taking these massive caveats into account, I would have to say that either New Left is likely preferable from my POV.  But the legacy of virtually all these groups is mixed lean-FF of course.

[Peter the Lefty]

The Old Left (we're talking about this in the context of the United States I guess?) was horrible, ultra-white and run by hacks in smoke-filled backrooms. To summarise the question at hand, George McGovern > Hubert Humphrey.

New Left by a mile.

It's not really fair to compare the nadir of the Old Left to the best of the New Left. And McGovern became a right-wing libertarian by the time he died anyway.

No he didn't.  Are you thinking of Gene McCarthy?

[Peter the Lefty]

Anyways, to answer the question, "New Left" has been seriously misdefined here.  Here are some examples of real "New Leftists:" Barbara Ehrenreich, Bobby Kennedy, Ralph Yarborough, George McGovern, Joe Clark (The PA Senator, not the Canadian PM), and Abe Ribicoff.  Clintonian centrists are not, and can't hope to be, on the New Left, for they're not anywhere near the left.  Paul Douglas is a classic example of the Old Left.  Essentially, the Old Left became too mired in the Cold War consensus, and I do have to say that in a 1970's context, anyone who was pro-gay-rights HAD to support the New Left (since the Old Left was against us until the 80's at best).  So, as someone who would've wanted to live my life free of persecution, and as someone who would've been anti-war, and passionately pro-labor as well, I'd be an actual New Leftist.  A good example of the modern day New Left would be Jeff Merkley.