Japan: Sex- and relationship phobia is gripping the country

[Tender Branson]

Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex?

What happens to a country when its young people stop having sex? Japan is finding out… Abigail Haworth investigates



45% of Japanese women aged 16-24 are ‘not interested in or despise sexual contact’. More than a quarter of men feel the same way.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

[afleitch]

I suppose the main issue here is the 'fear' of marriage and the patriarichal view of men's and women's roles in the family and the workplace as stifiling individuality and harming men and women who don't want that burden of expectation.

[Lief 🗽]

I suppose the main issue here is the 'fear' of marriage and the patriarichal view of men's and women's roles in the family and the workplace as stifiling individuality and harming men and women who don't want that burden of expectation.

A good example of how patriarchal society is harmful to both women and men.

[opebo]

I suppose the main issue here is the 'fear' of marriage and the patriarichal view of men's and women's roles in the family and the workplace as stifiling individuality and harming men and women who don't want that burden of expectation.

Good lord, what nonsense.  Japanese society is a wreck, and the reasons are not due to 'patriarchy'.

[DC Al Fine]

I suppose the main issue here is the 'fear' of marriage and the patriarichal view of men's and women's roles in the family and the workplace as stifiling individuality and harming men and women who don't want that burden of expectation.

Patriarchy has many weaknesses, but low marriage/birth rates isn't one of them.

Besides, a significant percentage of 16-24's aren't interested in sex at all. This suggests that the problem goes deeper than the patriarchy boogeyman. I'd expect a hookup scene or lots of short term dating, but it seems like people are abandoning sex completely.

I suppose the main issue here is the 'fear' of marriage and the patriarichal view of men's and women's roles in the family and the workplace as stifiling individuality and harming men and women who don't want that burden of expectation.

Good lord, what nonsense.  Japanese society is a wreck, and the reasons are not due to 'patriarchy'.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Opebo

[Lief 🗽]

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Patriarchy.

The fact that Japan's economy and economic culture is f[inks]ed up also contributes to it of course, but the problems would not be anywhere near as severe without patriarchal culture.

[Beet]

Well if you ask me about Japan's low birth rate then I'll readily believe that it's patriarchy and Confucian social conservatism at work. But this article is about sex and relationship phobia- something different entirely. A woman doesn't hurt her career by having a boyfriend or one night stands, especially at ages 16-24.

What do you think the reason is, opebo? (Part of me can't believe I'm asking you this but... )

[opebo]

What do you think the reason is, opebo? (Part of me can't believe I'm asking you this but... )

Definitely something wrong with the culture, but its not the patriarchal aspect that has messed up their gonad-brain linkup.  Probably something about the crushing weight of the conservative heirarchical confucion or whatever it is culture and the utter lack of economic progress or sense of 'personal progress' for the young.

[ingemann]

The patriarchy is one of the most idiotic and overused buzzword of the 2010s. But it doesn't change, that this is one of the few times the people using it are completely correct. The Japanese problem with low birth rates and people who don't want to marry is a result of the conservative attitudes to marriage, which dominate in Japan, and if people don't think that lack of interest in long term relationships affect short term relationships, they're naive.

[opebo]

The patriarchy is one of the most idiotic and overused buzzword of the 2010s. But it doesn't change, that this is one of the few times the people using it are completely correct. The Japanese problem with low birth rates and people who don't want to marry is a result of the conservative attitudes to marriage, which dominate in Japan, and if people don't think that lack of interest in long term relationships affect short term relationships, they're naive.

Well, long term relationships, burdening a man, and reproducing appear to be women's incentives for providing sex.  If those longer term goals are largely shut out due to poor economics or whatever, there is little incentive for them to engage in short term relations (sex).

One does still see a fair number of Japanese sex tourists here, and I believe quite a few more in the Philippines, but really not that many considering what a large, rich, and terribly hard-up country it is.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The problem is absolutely in part due to Japan's patriarchal marriage culture, but not solely attributable to it. I've read this article a couple of times now and I think it's entirely appropriate to call into question (for the umpteenth time) Japan's patriarchal work culture. Not-quite-mandatory weeknight binge drinking with the 部長 is not conducive to any kind of romantic or sexual life even though it may not wreck and with some personalities may in fact enhance a platonic social life.

It's also important to note that this is a problem of Japanese urbanities. Japanese ruralities simply don't have enough young people to have this problem, but the young people who are out in the inaka or even the smaller cities still date and marry relatively normally by comparison to their counterparts in the Taiheiyō megalopolis (but, perhaps, only by comparison to them; it's still rare to see more than a few young children together at one time (outside of school or school clubs) or especially in one family even out in rural Aomori or Akita). The problems of a place like, say, Yūbari aren't really less bad than those of a place like Ikebukuro (I'm using Yūbari as an example because anybody who's been subjected to the horror that is Meronguma will be way more familiar with that city's flailing assays at maintaining its economy and way of life than anybody should ever have to be), but they are different.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Well if you ask me about Japan's low birth rate then I'll readily believe that it's patriarchy and Confucian social conservatism at work. But this article is about sex and relationship phobia- something different entirely. A woman doesn't hurt her career by having a boyfriend or one night stands, especially at ages 16-24.

What do you think the reason is, opebo? (Part of me can't believe I'm asking you this but... )

Confucian? Japan?

Anyway, it's interesting that a lot of people here are toting out the marriage = sex line. No, this is clearly much deeper than that.

[opebo]

Showing off a bit there Nathan, but seems sound.  However, the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all worked ok in the past - isn't what's really changed the complete lack of economic opportunity for the young men?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Well if you ask me about Japan's low birth rate then I'll readily believe that it's patriarchy and Confucian social conservatism at work. But this article is about sex and relationship phobia- something different entirely. A woman doesn't hurt her career by having a boyfriend or one night stands, especially at ages 16-24.

What do you think the reason is, opebo? (Part of me can't believe I'm asking you this but... )

Confucian? Japan?

It's more likely than you think, though it hasn't been a particularly dominant or loud school of thought in Japan for about two hundred years now.

Showing off a bit there Nathan, but seems sound.  However, the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all worked ok in the past - isn't what's really changed the complete lack of economic opportunity for the young men?

Leaving aside for a moment your claim that the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all was ever more than superficially 'okay'...yes, pretty much.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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You know, when I saw that you posted above me, I knew that your next reply was to be going something on Neo-Confucianism.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

So, I guess Japan's economy isn't the only thing thats dry (dum-duh-ching).

[Beet]

I'm operating on 1.5 hours of sleep guys. You need something more than 'patriarchy' here, even to explain Japan's low birth rate, because patriarchy takes many forms, and not all of them lead to a low birth rate. Some have hypothesized a form of Strong Familial-ism (A study focused on Korea but mean to apply across East Asia; another study on East Asia without a focus on one country in particular)

[DC Al Fine]

The patriarchy is one of the most idiotic and overused buzzword of the 2010s. But it doesn't change, that this is one of the few times the people using it are completely correct. The Japanese problem with low birth rates and people who don't want to marry is a result of the conservative attitudes to marriage, which dominate in Japan, and if people don't think that lack of interest in long term relationships affect short term relationships, they're naive.

I question this. If anything, we've seen birth rates/marriage rates drop as attitudes liberalize.

Full credit to you though for recognizing patriarchy as an overused term. As a member of a fairly patriarchal community, it's kind of funny to here the phrase leveled against drunken frat boys anti-slut walkers.

[opebo]

Showing off a bit there Nathan, but seems sound.  However, the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all worked ok in the past - isn't what's really changed the complete lack of economic opportunity for the young men?

Leaving aside for a moment your claim that the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all was ever more than superficially 'okay'...yes, pretty much.

I meant 'OK' in the sense of not impeding reproduction to any demographically dangerous degree.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Showing off a bit there Nathan, but seems sound.  However, the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all worked ok in the past - isn't what's really changed the complete lack of economic opportunity for the young men?

Leaving aside for a moment your claim that the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all was ever more than superficially 'okay'...yes, pretty much.

I meant 'OK' in the sense of not impeding reproduction to any demographically dangerous degree.

Then yes, you're entirely right.

Beet, I'll have to read that article later. Strong familialism isn't a term I've encountered before but I can imagine what it might mean in the context of Japanese society and it definitely seems like an idea worth reading about.

[Lief 🗽]

Showing off a bit there Nathan, but seems sound.  However, the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all worked ok in the past - isn't what's really changed the complete lack of economic opportunity for the young men?

Patriarchal attitudes compound lack of economic opportunity. Men feel emasculated as they are unable to fulfill their tradition gender role of "breadwinning economic warriors" (a nice phrase from the article). And so rather than try and fail to fit in to that archetype, they reject it completely and rebel against it.

[opebo]

Showing off a bit there Nathan, but seems sound.  However, the culture of drinking and patriarchy and all worked ok in the past - isn't what's really changed the complete lack of economic opportunity for the young men?

Patriarchal attitudes compound lack of economic opportunity. Men feel emasculated as they are unable to fulfill their tradition gender role of "breadwinning economic warriors" (a nice phrase from the article). And so rather than try and fail to fit in to that archetype, they reject it completely and rebel against it.

Yes, fair enough.  But the real problem is capitalism.

[Gustaf]

The patriarchy is one of the most idiotic and overused buzzword of the 2010s. But it doesn't change, that this is one of the few times the people using it are completely correct. The Japanese problem with low birth rates and people who don't want to marry is a result of the conservative attitudes to marriage, which dominate in Japan, and if people don't think that lack of interest in long term relationships affect short term relationships, they're naive.

Well, long term relationships, burdening a man, and reproducing appear to be women's incentives for providing sex.  If those longer term goals are largely shut out due to poor economics or whatever, there is little incentive for them to engage in short term relations (sex).

One does still see a fair number of Japanese sex tourists here, and I believe quite a few more in the Philippines, but really not that many considering what a large, rich, and terribly hard-up country it is.

'burdening a man'? I'm really wondering what happened to make you such a bitter misogynist.

I suspect a culture like the Japanese which seems a bit fcked up when it comes to sex (and, yes, I think patriarchal culture is a big part of that) could well lead to people acting this way.

Also, to those of you denying it, it's clearly the case that countries that retain conservative attitudes to gender roles in a modern context experience lower birth rates. Compare Sweden to Germany and Italy for example. Third world countries pop out babies, but that's a bit different.

[opebo]

'burdening a man'? I'm really wondering what happened to make you such a bitter misogynist.

Nothing in particular happened, and there's nothing about what I'm saying that is misogynistic, Gustaf.  Just observing the dreary old world around me.  You may see more clearly when you're older (I used to get the stuff thrown at me now and again when I was a youth, and I'll admit it can be confusing).

[angus]

With 130 million people living on 145 thousand square miles, asexuality isn't a bad option.  The last time the Japs got really horny and started thinking that Japan wasn't large enough for the Japanese, millions of innocent Chinese people were brutally raped and murdered. 

Like your article says, "she did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on their nipples."  Seriously, how hentai is that?  I say let them leave off it for a while.  I'm really not seeing a problem here.  In fact, it seems to me that the world is a better place when Japanese people stop reproducing and focus on cars, cameras, and electronics.