UK North - South Divide
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  UK North - South Divide
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2013, 05:19:41 PM »

A mixture of tactical anti-Tory voting (Labour vote tends to collapse in their weakest areas to help Liberals to gain the seat) and them winning their seats comprehensively with fewer votes than the Tories do theirs (mostly through the usual demographic relations to voting - working class & young vs old and middle-class etc - but not to forget disillusionment).
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change08
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2013, 05:32:09 PM »

I post on a board with a high number of British posters, and one thing that's pointed out by a few is how if Scotland actually did become independent, the Labour electoral map toward victory becomes completely screwed because Labour are the nationally dominant party there (so far people haven't voted SNP en masse to Westminster) and the Conservatives don't exist in Scotland outside of the Borders. So Scottish independence means Labour would have to become more competitive in the South as far as their policies if they wanted to take power again.

The last time Labour won in 2005, they would've still won a majority government even without Scotland.

Yes, there is an anti-Labour shift if you remove Scotland, but it isn't that big.  In both 2005 and 2010 Labour's lead over all other parties in terms of Scottish seats was 23; it might be a bit higher next time but it's not likely to be more than 40, so if Labour can do well enough to get a majority of 40 or so in the whole UK (i.e. a useful but not overwhelming majority) they'd still have done well enough to get a majority without Scotland.

Why is Labour's vote so efficient?

Labour's safe seats cluster around former industrial heartlands in the North, Wales and Greater London and areas with large minority and white-working class populations. The Tories don't have such a natural base. 1997-2010 also brought a new base of middle-class public sector workers and I'd imagine the collapse of the LibDems will firm this up, bringing the student vote back to the Labour electoral coalition as well.

The Tories have barely any presence in major cities like Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle, but they tend to do better in safe Labour seats than Labour does in safe Tory seats. What good's 20% in Newcastle if it doesn't win you the seat? Many of the very safe Tory seats tend to have the Liberals in second with Labour languishing on 5-15% of the vote.

Also, safe Tory seats tend to get the highest turnout (+70%), while safe Labour seats tend to get the worst turnout. Manchester Central was the lowest last time, something like 45%. Then you have a safe Tory seat like Central Devon where turnout was 75%. Both candidates got about 52% of the vote: the Labour MP in Manchester only needed 21,000 votes, but the Tory MP in Devon needed nearly 28,000 votes.

As an aside as well, Labour's ground game tends to be much more effective than the Tories. They won quite a few seats last time that the bookies and the pollsters had written off for them.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2013, 06:47:09 AM »

Add the considerable timelag in UK redistricting... and the fact that relatively reasonable, community-based constituencies also means that low turnout communities don't get punished with decreased representation.
Which is why the National Government's redistricting reform bill (apart from a few entirely rational changes) created new rules for the commission intended to result in nonsensical constituencies in urban areas. Which in turn is why it crashed down in the end, and they'll still be using the now way outdated old constituencies next election...
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ChrisDR68
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2013, 02:24:12 PM »

Playing around with different predictions on the Electoral Calculus website Labour can actually be outvoted by a full 3.5% in the national UK popular vote and still end up with more seats than the Tories in 2015.

On the other hand putting in the very best I think the Conservatives can hope for (a lead of 38% to 33% for Labour) only gives them 309 seats. Just 3 seats more than they won in 2010 and still 17 seats short of an overall majority.

As much as I doubt Ed Miliband's leadership it's actually pretty hard for him not to end up in Downing Street in May 2015.

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Leftbehind
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 03:11:49 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2013, 03:16:01 PM by Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit »

Hoist with their own petard. Cool

Although I'm not amazed that they'd win little better on a reduced lead?
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