Poll: Majority of Mass-going Catholics support SSM, ordination of women

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

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Catholic Culture

I can't post the entire article for copyright reasons, but the survey includes numbers on abortion and Pope Francis, as well.

Of course, I don't put much stock into abortion polls, just because it's not a black-and-white issue the way people on both sides would like it to be.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Since Catholics already have to deal with a non-equivalence between civil and religious marriage, the SSM numbers aren't too surprising if they are referring to civil SSM and not Catholic SSM.  It's also not surprising that it is older Catholics who favor the ordination of women.  They can recall a time when there were far more priests per parish than is the case today. Allowing the ordaining of women would be one way of restoring the ratio to a less hectic number that would enable priests to connect more with their parishes and their parishioners.

[DC Al Fine]

There's an issue with the demographics of the survey; Quinnipiac says 40% of the self described Catholics attend mass weekly. I'm skeptical that that's actually the case. Regardless, it still makes an interesting point that Rod Dreher has been talking up lately; that the Catholic Church actually doesn't preach about sexuality that much.

Dreher claims he heard exactly one homily in 10+ years as a Catholic that dealt with homosexuality and that the quality of catechesis is awful. I've flirted with Catholicism now and again, but have been unimpressed by the quality of preaching and the knowledge of the laity is poor at best*. In such an environment, it makes sense that large portions of the laity would drift from church teachings. It seems very easy to become a heretic without even knowing it!

*Spoiled Calvinist, I know

[King]

There's an issue with the demographics of the survey; Quinnipiac says 40% of the self described Catholics attend mass weekly. I'm skeptical that that's actually the case. Regardless, it still makes an interesting point that Rod Dreher has been talking up lately; that the Catholic Church actually doesn't preach about sexuality that much.

Dreher claims he heard exactly one homily in 10+ years as a Catholic that dealt with homosexuality and that the quality of catechesis is awful. I've flirted with Catholicism now and again, but have been unimpressed by the quality of preaching and the knowledge of the laity is poor at best*. In such an environment, it makes sense that large portions of the laity would drift from church teachings. It seems very easy to become a heretic without even knowing it!

*Spoiled Calvinist, I know

If you weren't born Catholic, you don't want to convert.  From what I've seen, the process is worse than legal immigration.

[7,052,770]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

Jesus would forgive, not mock those comments.  Of course forgiving them wouldn't mean he wouldn't exhort them to be more compassionate towards others.  He's also be exhorting you to be compassionate rather than mocking.  It is easy to be compassionate to those we like.  Jesus' message was more difficult than that.  He called on us to transform our hate of the other into compassion, even when they continued to hate us.

[TJ in Oregon]

There's an issue with the demographics of the survey; Quinnipiac says 40% of the self described Catholics attend mass weekly. I'm skeptical that that's actually the case. Regardless, it still makes an interesting point that Rod Dreher has been talking up lately; that the Catholic Church actually doesn't preach about sexuality that much.

Dreher claims he heard exactly one homily in 10+ years as a Catholic that dealt with homosexuality and that the quality of catechesis is awful. I've flirted with Catholicism now and again, but have been unimpressed by the quality of preaching and the knowledge of the laity is poor at best*. In such an environment, it makes sense that large portions of the laity would drift from church teachings. It seems very easy to become a heretic without even knowing it!

*Spoiled Calvinist, I know

First, Americans tend to over-report their religious attendance in self-ID surveys. The main reason for this is that a lot of people will go about 2-3 times a month and claim to go weekly or say they go every Sunday when they really don't quite go every Sunday.

Secondly, you are completely correct when you say the catechesis is awful on homosexuality. I don't recall it ever being mentioned at all in my religious education classes and I think I heard it mentioned once (it was the use of the phrase "sanctity of marriage" or something of that sort in the petitions, not a detailed sketch in a homily) prior to moving to Wisconsin about a year ago (the Church in Madison is far far less hesitant about mentioning contentious social issues because, well, it's Madison). However, the pulpit at Mass is really not the ideal place for that discussion to take happen. I do think the Catholic Church is now actually teaching its own teachings in most places and for the most part has realized that simply ignoring the issue won't make it go away. But you are quite correct in noting that Church has more or less completely ignored homosexuality until circa 2010 when it became a national political issue.

Actually, there is one thing about this survey that shows the Catholic Church's efforts on contentious social issues have not been completely in vain, and that's the abortion survey. While Catholics as a whole are split, the divide between practicing and nonpracticing is quite clear. I think the reason for this is that the Catholic Church, unlike with homosexuality, has not ignored abortion. While I had heard gay marriage referred to at Mass about once before I came to Wisconsin, I can't count the number of times abortion came up in one way or another. Just about every Parish I knew of had some group advocating for a crisis pregnancy center or, in Cleveland where they existed unlike in my hometown, protesting at abortion clinics. I think this survey has quite silver lining for the Church to read in that it does seem like all their efforts are bringing practicing Catholics toward a more pro-life position with the numbers on homosexuality in this survey acting as a control group.

[7,052,770]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

Jesus would forgive, not mock those comments.  Of course forgiving them wouldn't mean he wouldn't exhort them to be more compassionate towards others.  He's also be exhorting you to be compassionate rather than mocking.  It is easy to be compassionate to those we like.  Jesus' message was more difficult than that.  He called on us to transform our hate of the other into compassion, even when they continued to hate us.

Jesus would forgive once they were sorry, but he wouldn't stand for the blasphemous idea that there's something "sinful" about being gay.  A harsh rebuking is the only way he could get through to those people, so that's what he would do.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

Jesus would forgive, not mock those comments.  Of course forgiving them wouldn't mean he wouldn't exhort them to be more compassionate towards others.  He's also be exhorting you to be compassionate rather than mocking.  It is easy to be compassionate to those we like.  Jesus' message was more difficult than that.  He called on us to transform our hate of the other into compassion, even when they continued to hate us.

Jesus would forgive once they were sorry, but he wouldn't stand for the blasphemous idea that there's something "sinful" about being gay.  A harsh rebuking is the only way he could get through to those people, so that's what he would do.

Harry, you know I agree with you on most social and religious issues, but please give an example of a "harsh rebuking" that Jesus brought on to people who disagreed with him in the Bible.

Flipping tables doesn't count as harsh.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

Jesus would forgive, not mock those comments.  Of course forgiving them wouldn't mean he wouldn't exhort them to be more compassionate towards others.  He'd also be exhorting you to be compassionate rather than mocking.  It is easy to be compassionate to those we like.  Jesus' message was more difficult than that.  He called on us to transform our hate of the other into compassion, even when they continued to hate us.

Jesus would forgive once they were sorry, but he wouldn't stand for the blasphemous idea that there's something "sinful" about being gay.  A harsh rebuking is the only way he could get through to those people, so that's what he would do.

What part of "turning the other cheek" do you fail to comprehend?  Forgiveness is not the same as acceptance.  Mocking is the not the same as offering correction.

[minionofmidas]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

You mean nothing less amazing, right? I mean, these posts are even more predictable than the poll result itself.

[7,052,770]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

Jesus would forgive, not mock those comments.  Of course forgiving them wouldn't mean he wouldn't exhort them to be more compassionate towards others.  He'd also be exhorting you to be compassionate rather than mocking.  It is easy to be compassionate to those we like.  Jesus' message was more difficult than that.  He called on us to transform our hate of the other into compassion, even when they continued to hate us.

Jesus would forgive once they were sorry, but he wouldn't stand for the blasphemous idea that there's something "sinful" about being gay.  A harsh rebuking is the only way he could get through to those people, so that's what he would do.

What part of "turning the other cheek" do you fail to comprehend?  Forgiveness is not the same as acceptance.  Mocking is the not the same as offering correction.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

You mean nothing less amazing, right? I mean, these posts are even more predictable than the poll result itself.

I really enjoy watching Republicans whine when they lose. It was awesome to read all of the hyperright-wingers' shocked,  near-suicidal comments when Mississippi rejected that Personhood nonsense. I realize it's generallynot nice to be happy that others are sad but these people are so self-righteous, arrogant and hateful that they deserved to be knocked down a gfew pegs,  just like the Denialist commenters on this poll.

[Oakvale]

Catholics in "Catholics do not homogeneously support the Vatican's position on every issue" shock.

[RI]

There's an issue with the demographics of the survey; Quinnipiac says 40% of the self described Catholics attend mass weekly. I'm skeptical that that's actually the case. Regardless, it still makes an interesting point that Rod Dreher has been talking up lately; that the Catholic Church actually doesn't preach about sexuality that much.

Dreher claims he heard exactly one homily in 10+ years as a Catholic that dealt with homosexuality and that the quality of catechesis is awful. I've flirted with Catholicism now and again, but have been unimpressed by the quality of preaching and the knowledge of the laity is poor at best*. In such an environment, it makes sense that large portions of the laity would drift from church teachings. It seems very easy to become a heretic without even knowing it!

*Spoiled Calvinist, I know

If you weren't born Catholic, you don't want to convert.  From what I've seen, the process is worse than legal immigration.

It really wasn't that bad. You pretty much just have to go to mass and weekly meetings.

[7,052,770]

There's an issue with the demographics of the survey; Quinnipiac says 40% of the self described Catholics attend mass weekly. I'm skeptical that that's actually the case. Regardless, it still makes an interesting point that Rod Dreher has been talking up lately; that the Catholic Church actually doesn't preach about sexuality that much.

Dreher claims he heard exactly one homily in 10+ years as a Catholic that dealt with homosexuality and that the quality of catechesis is awful. I've flirted with Catholicism now and again, but have been unimpressed by the quality of preaching and the knowledge of the laity is poor at best*. In such an environment, it makes sense that large portions of the laity would drift from church teachings. It seems very easy to become a heretic without even knowing it!

*Spoiled Calvinist, I know

If you weren't born Catholic, you don't want to convert.  From what I've seen, the process is worse than legal immigration.

It really wasn't that bad. You pretty much just have to go to mass and weekly meetings.

Depends on the particular church, really.  The parish I grew up in makes you go to weekly class for a year, but some of them let you convert after a few months of class.

[barfbag]

There's nothing more amazing than those hyperconservative comments whining about the results.  Jesus and I both mock their self-absorbed hatefulness.

Have you met the Lord or are you a troll?