Battle of Hastings voted most influential battle in history agree?
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  Battle of Hastings voted most influential battle in history agree?
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Author Topic: Battle of Hastings voted most influential battle in history agree?  (Read 5079 times)
The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2013, 04:00:24 PM »

Not even the most influential in english history.
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J. J.
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2013, 08:31:02 PM »

Perhaps the Battle of the Marne? I don't know that France could have held out much longer if Paris had fallen. Many say that was the decisive point of the war.

Not really a single battle, but the winter of 1941-1942 with the German army in the front of Moscow was probably also important.

I would have to agree with First Marne, in both European and world history as being on the top ten.

I think the The Massacre in the Main Temple might be one of global importance. 
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lfromnj
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2021, 12:01:01 PM »
« Edited: May 29, 2021, 12:42:15 PM by lfromnj »

Bump, felt like this thread was interesting.

I can't see any argument for Tours being on this list but Constantinople's 717 siege not being on this list. The latter had to face a much larger Arab army and the defeat actually destabilized the Arabs very heavily.

Tours was mainly just a border raid.

I would also add the Battle of Warsaw in 1920 here.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2021, 09:55:06 PM »


This is a fair suggestion, although predictions that the Mongols would race through North Africa until they reach Morocco if Ain Jalut went the other way ignore the giant expanse of nothing between Alexandria and Benghazi. Mongol armies had tons and tons of horses and they weren't about galloping across open desert with nothing to eat. The Mongols would've taken Alexandria, Cairo, and the rest of the Nile Valley and called it quits with Egypt.

Submitting for consideration the Battle of Badr. If the Meccans killed Muhammad at Badr, no Islam. No Islam, no Arab Conquests. No Islam, no separating the Levant and North Africa from European civilization and the two sides of the Mediterranean would be far more similar. No Islamization of Persian and later Indian civilization. Central Asia remains Buddhist (or Manichean I guess).  No Islam changes EVERYTHING. And the Battle of Badr was tiny. Just a few hundred people on each side.

EDIT: I didn't realize this was a bump, sorry.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2021, 10:56:51 PM »


This is a fair suggestion, although predictions that the Mongols would race through North Africa until they reach Morocco if Ain Jalut went the other way ignore the giant expanse of nothing between Alexandria and Benghazi. Mongol armies had tons and tons of horses and they weren't about galloping across open desert with nothing to eat. The Mongols would've taken Alexandria, Cairo, and the rest of the Nile Valley and called it quits with Egypt.

Submitting for consideration the Battle of Badr. If the Meccans killed Muhammad at Badr, no Islam. No Islam, no Arab Conquests. No Islam, no separating the Levant and North Africa from European civilization and the two sides of the Mediterranean would be far more similar. No Islamization of Persian and later Indian civilization. Central Asia remains Buddhist (or Manichean I guess).  No Islam changes EVERYTHING. And the Battle of Badr was tiny. Just a few hundred people on each side.

EDIT: I didn't realize this was a bump, sorry.
Wait am  I not allowed to bump threads especially in a smaller board like this? I understand why necroes aren't great but history hasn't changed.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2021, 12:39:44 AM »

As long as you have something new to contribute, I have no objections to bumps on this board.
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Paul Weller
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« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2021, 10:48:43 PM »

The Battle of Breitenfeld has to be up there, as Gustavus' victory basically saved German Protestantism from annihilation. White Mountain is also extremely significant, though in a very bad way, as it inaugurated centuries of brutal persecution that effectively wiped out Hussitism from Czechia. Then there's the Battle of Naseby, which essentially decided the English Civil War, and the Battle of the Dunes, which confirmed French dominance over Spain 15 years after the Battle of Rocroi.
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Buffalo Mayor Young Kim
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2021, 11:09:15 PM »

I don’t think Hastings was that important big picture. The reality is, contrary to the Norman Yolk of British romanticism, the difference between the Ango-Saxon and Norman nobility by the 11th century just wasn’t that great. England gets spared allot of the nasty business that comes with replacing one ruling caste with another and the English language looks a bit different, but the course of history remains pretty much the same.
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StateBoiler
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2021, 03:56:55 PM »

I just listened to The History of Rome's podcast on the Battle of the Millvian Bridge where Constantine's army defeated Maxentius's forces and unquestionably became emperor of Rome the city and the western half of the empire. Although remove Constantine's grandfather-like influence with Christianity (or at least that gets prescribed to him), Diocletian is the one that shaped in a lot of ways how Europe operated culturally for the next thousand years.
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2021, 04:29:42 PM »

There have been quite a few battles that were considerably more important in world history than Hastings.

However, Hastings probably was the most important battle in British history

Not even the most influential in english history.

Which one would you say was the most important then?
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Samof94
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2021, 05:52:45 PM »

1. Hastings - 1066
2. Stalingrad - 1942/43
3. Leipzig - 1813
4. Cajamarca - 1532
5. Tours - 732
6. Adrianple - 718
7. Vienna - 1529
8. Yorktown - 1781
9. Waterloo - 1815
10. Vienna - 1683

For me, the battles of Tours, Adrianople, Vienna were about survival of races. The arab world would have dominated western and eastern europe. Stalingrad changed the outcome of ww2 and gave the west time to prepare resources to other regions.

I don't think Hastings was that influential. The language didn't begin as a consequence of Hastings in fact it was a successful french invastion. The nobility of england was french and kings such as Richard I didn't even like england. The vikings and saxons continued to live in english society particularly in eastern england and the north and it was in these rural communities away from norman control that english as a language grew. The development of the long bow as a military weapon changed england as a nation not the battle of hastings.

Battle of the red cliffs?
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The Mikado
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« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2021, 04:07:29 AM »

1. Hastings - 1066
2. Stalingrad - 1942/43
3. Leipzig - 1813
4. Cajamarca - 1532
5. Tours - 732
6. Adrianple - 718
7. Vienna - 1529
8. Yorktown - 1781
9. Waterloo - 1815
10. Vienna - 1683

For me, the battles of Tours, Adrianople, Vienna were about survival of races. The arab world would have dominated western and eastern europe. Stalingrad changed the outcome of ww2 and gave the west time to prepare resources to other regions.

I don't think Hastings was that influential. The language didn't begin as a consequence of Hastings in fact it was a successful french invastion. The nobility of england was french and kings such as Richard I didn't even like england. The vikings and saxons continued to live in english society particularly in eastern england and the north and it was in these rural communities away from norman control that english as a language grew. The development of the long bow as a military weapon changed england as a nation not the battle of hastings.

Battle of the red cliffs?

Does Red Cliffs fundamentally change anything here? So Cao Cao finishes off Sun Quan and Liu Bei in 208/209 and reunifies the entire empire under his dominance (and presumably does away with the Emperor and pronounces himself Emperor Wu of the new Wei Dynasty). Cao Cao dies, of natural causes, and his son Cao Pi succeeds him as Emperor Wen. Cao Pi dies alarmingly young of illness as he was always destined to do like IRL and the rest of the Caos are dithering idiots who will allow the family's powerful and brilliant advisor, Sima Yi to slowly usurp power and subjugate the Caos and establish dominance for himself and his clan.

You just get a unified Jin Dynasty decades earlier, but you haven't resolved the problems that destroyed the Jin Dynasty originally: now that civil war has been legitimized as a method of dealing with political strife, it'll just happen constantly, and meanwhile the Xianbei peoples to the north are gonna invade and pretty easily conquer the Northern half of China the second Jin is distracted, and we're right back to OTL.

I don't think China reunifying 50 years earlier really prevents the Xianbei invasion or Jin (or Wei if the Cao Clan DOES keep power) devolving into infighting and civil war.
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Samof94
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2021, 07:10:24 AM »

1. Hastings - 1066
2. Stalingrad - 1942/43
3. Leipzig - 1813
4. Cajamarca - 1532
5. Tours - 732
6. Adrianple - 718
7. Vienna - 1529
8. Yorktown - 1781
9. Waterloo - 1815
10. Vienna - 1683

For me, the battles of Tours, Adrianople, Vienna were about survival of races. The arab world would have dominated western and eastern europe. Stalingrad changed the outcome of ww2 and gave the west time to prepare resources to other regions.

I don't think Hastings was that influential. The language didn't begin as a consequence of Hastings in fact it was a successful french invastion. The nobility of england was french and kings such as Richard I didn't even like england. The vikings and saxons continued to live in english society particularly in eastern england and the north and it was in these rural communities away from norman control that english as a language grew. The development of the long bow as a military weapon changed england as a nation not the battle of hastings.

Battle of the red cliffs?

Does Red Cliffs fundamentally change anything here? So Cao Cao finishes off Sun Quan and Liu Bei in 208/209 and reunifies the entire empire under his dominance (and presumably does away with the Emperor and pronounces himself Emperor Wu of the new Wei Dynasty). Cao Cao dies, of natural causes, and his son Cao Pi succeeds him as Emperor Wen. Cao Pi dies alarmingly young of illness as he was always destined to do like IRL and the rest of the Caos are dithering idiots who will allow the family's powerful and brilliant advisor, Sima Yi to slowly usurp power and subjugate the Caos and establish dominance for himself and his clan.

You just get a unified Jin Dynasty decades earlier, but you haven't resolved the problems that destroyed the Jin Dynasty originally: now that civil war has been legitimized as a method of dealing with political strife, it'll just happen constantly, and meanwhile the Xianbei peoples to the north are gonna invade and pretty easily conquer the Northern half of China the second Jin is distracted, and we're right back to OTL.

I don't think China reunifying 50 years earlier really prevents the Xianbei invasion or Jin (or Wei if the Cao Clan DOES keep power) devolving into infighting and civil war.
The tail end of the Han dynasty was a complete mess. The Yellow Turban rebellion decades earlier made things worse.
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2021, 03:13:16 PM »

Hot take: the most consequential Battle of the Napoleonic Era was the Battle of the Nile.
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Cassius
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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2021, 04:28:57 PM »

Hot take: the most consequential Battle of the Napoleonic Era was the Battle of the Nile.

I'm pretty surprised that nobody has mentioned Valmy, which is probably a contender for the most significant battle of the entire Revolutionary-Napoleonic wars.
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