Senator Xahar stays on as Pacific Council Speaker

[ZuWo]

Yes, I do and I am not blaming you for the current problems in the Pacific. Rebuilding a region needs patience and constant recruitment efforts, though. If you continue your efforts, they will sooner or later pay off.

[windjammer]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

All due respect to Senator Xahar, but this comes across as him and his allies going a bit mad with power (which is especially sad because no one in this game has any real power ).  You were elected Senator, you could've stayed Speaker, but you chose not to.  That's fine, but you shouldn't continue serving in this office while serving as Senator.  You can appoint another Speaker who is closely aligned with you, but the failure to do so deprives Atlasia of a full-time Senator and the Pacific of a full-time speaker.  Quite frankly, The People (both in the Pacific and Atlasia as a whole) deserve better.  I enjoyed my time in the Senate, but when I realized I couldn't be a full-time Senator for the latter half of my second term due to RL responsibilities, I resigned.  We can try to cling to every scrap of power for as long as possible, but in the end that isn't what's best for Atlasia.  And to be honest, it isn't like NM-AM has actually done anything in the Pacific other than spark a constitutional crisis (I realize that wasn't the intent, but there is a process that should've been followed in order to scrap the abominable Wolfinstitution).  Senator Xahar still has a chance to do right by the Pacific by resigning as Speaker and I would urge him to do so.  If he doesn't, however, I'd urge either the Pacific Council to pass legislation to requiring the speaker to be a member of the council.

[Kitteh]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

[Maxwell]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

Court ruled against you. Deal with it.

[GAworth]

I offer only this: If the person in Xahar's position was a Federalist, would the NMAM be as supportive?

[Spamage]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

If you believe it shouldn't exist, then why do members of your party hold positions in it?

I have a hard time seeing how NM-AM justifies it's actions. A bunch of members saw an opening in the Pacific and carpetbagged en masse there only to destroy the region and cause chaos. That's not only pointless and completely stupid, but its also harmful to the game as after their failure in the attempts on the Final Constitution they just protested and pouted by leaving their offices inactive and intentionally, or so it appears, have stalled any attempts to revive the region.

[Хahar 🤔]

I offer only this: If the person in Xahar's position was a Federalist, would the NMAM be as supportive?

For that to be the case, the Federalist Party would have to be a different (and much better) party, to which the National Movement might grant its support.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Considering that Xahar's merry band of terrorists never actually cared about the Pacific, this isn't actually a surprise.

[Maxwell]

I offer only this: If the person in Xahar's position was a Federalist, would the NMAM be as supportive?

Someone who is a Federalist would not do what Xahar is doing. End of discussion.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

With all due respect, that sounds eerily tea-partyesque.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

If you people put half the effort into playing the game that you put into trolling the game, the Pacific could be a vibrant region with opportunities for new players and a strong political culture.

[ZuWo]

If you people put half the effort into playing the game that you put into trolling the game, the Pacific could be a vibrant region with opportunities for new players and a strong political culture.

Yes, this has become quite obvious. I also don't get why non-NM-AM left-wingers still support them because a quick glance at the Pacific makes clear that the NM-AM movement isn't even interested in getting left-wing legislation passed ...

[Kitteh]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure.  

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

With all due respect, that sounds eerily tea-partyesque.

The diff is that this is a game, not real life. If Congress doesn't pass laws actual people suffer, that's not true here. The goal is to make this game more fun.

[Maxwell]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

With all due respect, that sounds eerily tea-partyesque.

The diff is that this is a game, not real life. The goal here is to make this game more fun.

And it's no fun for anyone else when your attitude is basically "I'm taking my ball and going home".

[PJ]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure. 

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

Lol you guys are funny. If you don't think it should exist, don't be part of it.

[GAworth]

I offer only this: If the person in Xahar's position was a Federalist, would the NMAM be as supportive?

For that to be the case, the Federalist Party would have to be a different (and much better) party, to which the National Movement might grant its support.

No, that is not the question, if a Federalist, as is, was in the same position, the movement would not support this. Keep that in mind.

[windjammer]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure.  

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

With all due respect, that sounds eerily tea-partyesque.

The diff is that this is a game, not real life. If Congress doesn't pass laws actual people suffer, that's not true here. The goal is to make this game more fun.

If you would like to make this game more fun, you with your friends would leave.

[DemPGH]

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

Secondly, I'm sick of hearing about Wolfentoad. If you don't like what he did, fix it! But I guess there's a good ol' boy element, though, that still needs him as a villain, though. He left months ago, and the people who have taken over after him have acted worse, IMO.

[Bacon King]

Secondly, I'm sick of hearing about Wolfentoad. If you don't like what he did, fix it! But I guess there's a good ol' boy element, though, that still needs him as a villain, though. He left months ago, and the people who have taken over after him have acted worse, IMO.

I'm not a member of NM-AM by any stretch of the imagination, but my impression of the party is that they fully embrace the fact that they're the villains of Atlasia. They do seem to be fully aware they're worse than Wolfentoad.

[Хahar 🤔]

Has everyone forgotten how the game was six months ago, before it had villains? It was awful.

To elaborate on what Bacon King said, we do have goals for the game that we have articulated in the past (I have explained at length how I feel that abolishing the regions and reducing the number of offices would do wonders to revitalize the game) and our primary aim is to promote alternatives beyond the ossified way of thinking that has prevailed in Atlasia since 2008. If that means being a mustache-twirling villain now and again, well, that's just a bonus.

[Sbane]

You new kids are really, really whiny. I know you don't know better, but this game is and always has been run by cliques and cabals. When you ruffle feathers like this, you limit your ability to progress in the game. It's also good not to jump parties every week or two (sage advice for any newer peeps who may read this).

The main problem with the Pacific is that the Wolfenstitution is a disaster, the region has always sucked and not enough people care enough to change it anymore. The Supreme Court in its infinite wisdom decided to leave it in place. Oh well, I guess the region gets to continue enjoying it. Everyone threw a shit-fit over the most rational solution to the problem (putting a gun to the head of a chronically dead region and pulling the trigger), so I guess the majority and ruling party will have control until it no longer does.

There's no point to this game if you are not pushing constitutional law and statute to the limits. So tired of hearing this "everything is sacred" approach to constitutional law, regions, statute, etc - ESPECIALLY from individuals who frankly haven't been around long enough to know the difference (hell, I haven't even been around that long in the grand scheme of things). It's there to be ed with, duh. I can't possibly imagine how enjoyable it can be to draft some piece of legislation only to find out that five people before you drafted and passed the same thing.

Also, publishing a personal message can warrant you 10 death points from the mods.

(Not all of these critiques apply to everyone or to the same people so please pick and choose accordingly)

Your attitude towards the Pacific is pretty messed up. Yes, it is an inactive region. Yes, it has been that way for years now, ever since I have been involved at least. That doesn't mean the region sucked. While the rest of Atlasia was controlled by reactionary forces, the Pacific was at the forefront of passing laws expanding personal liberty and generally liberal/leftist legislation. Of course it was basically Bgwah and Ebowed doing it, but the Pacific has always been like that. There are always just a few people pulling the strings and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they are rational actors. I would not mind the NM-AM taking over the Pacific at this point of time....until when they decided the region needs to be destroyed. That is just not acceptable, at least outside a framework of an Atlasia wide rethinking of how regions are structured.

[Kitteh]

Griffin, if the NMAM members wanted to improve this game, they would have proposed new laws in the Pacific Council,... But it's not the case. They have just destroyed the region, they have the majority of the Pacific Council just because Aksalmon's candidacy has been invalidated. But I would love to seem them active, but it's not the case. They love being "revolutionnary", maybe to them revolution is doing nothing? You can verify, only PJ and Tyrion are proposing laws, not them. So this party is more a poison than a cure.  

So yes, they had a chance to improve Pacific's situation when they succesfully recalled a council where Superique was the speaker. But they did NOTHING.

Why should we legislate in a body that shouldn't even exist?

With all due respect, that sounds eerily tea-partyesque.

The diff is that this is a game, not real life. If Congress doesn't pass laws actual people suffer, that's not true here. The goal is to make this game more fun.

If you would like to make this game more fun, you with your friends would leave.

If it weren't for this debate, half the posts in this board in the past few days would never have happened, Nix would have cruised easily to victory and BK would be doing the same.

[Kitteh]

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

[Flake]

First, a game has rules - all games do, and when one participates in a game it is assumed that 1) they accept the rules and that 2) they find the game fun. When I was an undergrad we played billiards a little, for example. Now can you imagine someone coming in and saying, "You guys are boring, this game isn't loony enough," and proceeding to throw balls across the table, take the sticks, bust up the game, and hide the cue? Those people would have been put through the door head first. That's how the NM has decided to act.

All games are invented by someone willing to rewrite the rules.

Actually games are made by people who write the rules so there aren't any conflicts.