Update Season X - "It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas Vol. I."

[Lief 🗽]

Just to inform the pampered denizens of this forum of the reality of the world, three cars for a household of three people in which only one member is in employment would be excessive even in a very rural area with no public transport (like the upland farming valley that I grew up in). The impression is further reinforced by the statement that one of them was bought new. This is a pattern of consumption driven by lifestyle choices (choices that I'm not judging), not necessity.

Yes, exactly. Bushie's family is well-off by any standards, and for rural Oklahoma, they are living like royalty.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Which is why Bushie needs a queen in his castle.

[King]

Which is why Bushie needs a queen in his castle.

The obesity, the sex, wild hungry dogs outside--it'll be like a Roman Orgy from Muskogee.

[Torie]

Just to inform the pampered denizens of this forum of the reality of the world, three cars for a household of three people in which only one member is in employment would be excessive even in a very rural area with no public transport (like the upland farming valley that I grew up in). The impression is further reinforced by the statement that one of them was bought new. This is a pattern of consumption driven by lifestyle choices (choices that I'm not judging), not necessity.

To my mind, such choices are insane, but that's just me. One issue, is that most folks really don't know how much it costs to have a car - even a cheap one costs about 50 cents a mile to run after all the costs are factored in (assuming it was bought for cash), to wit, gas, repairs/maintenance and depreciation (and insurance of course).

I was explaining this to my bf. He has his art studio in Chinatown, next to downtown LA. That is about 50 miles away. So a round trip is 100 miles, or 50 dollars, plus about 3 hours in commuting time (and sometimes it is more like 55 miles (110 round trip) if you need to take more circuitous routes to avoid the traffic choke points (which sometimes requires using 7 different freeways). He can take the train, and get there in an hour while doing other stuff, and it costs about $17 round trip, about a third as much as going by car. He takes the train now, except in the rare instance where he needs to haul stuff.

[© tweed]

even a cheap one costs about 50 cents a mile to run after all the costs are factored in

so when an employer re-imburses me 35 cents a mile I am getting screwed?

[Hatman 🍁]

Indeed, cars are ridiculously expensive, and they're only going to get worse as gas prices increase. Now, I must admit gas is much more expensive in Canada than in the US, and even worse in Europe.

I am very grateful for my bicycle, as I am able to get to work in 20 minutes on it, and if it wasn't for my commute, I wouldn't get very much exercise.  The biggest downfall is biking in the winter. But to me, it's just a challenge. It's funny that Bushie was scared to drive in a little snow, when I've biked in blizzards.  

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

even a cheap one costs about 50 cents a mile to run after all the costs are factored in

so when an employer re-imburses me 35 cents a mile I am getting screwed?

Yes, that rate is about 10 years behind reality. The IRS currently sets the standard rate at $0.565 per mile for business purposes in 2013. That's the rate you should be demanding. And if you don't get it, you're eligible to deduct the difference on your tax return. (Though you should talk to a tax professional to be sure.)

You have to go back to 2001 to find a time when the IRS rate was less than $0.35 per mile.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Sure, cars are expensive, but I think also a major factor is the resources available to you.  Car pooling, as Memphis mentioned, is a great idea.  The only problem with my current situation, is none of my classmates live close to where I do, so that's not really an option.  I live in an Oklahoma City suburb, but the mass transit doesn't get out this far and neither do the Metro Tech school buses.  So, that option is out.  Now, when I get a job, I will likely live in an area that is close a bus stop, so it is possible that I could take the bus to work.  I'll just have to wait and see until next Spring.

[7,052,770]

How far is the nearest store? I couldn't imagine living far away from any stores. What a horrible thought! I thought America was all about freedom, but living that far away is so restrictive! I would hope that any poors in Oklahoma at least live close to stores.

No, there are no stores in suburbia, at least not within walking distance.  My suburb (which is admittedly much more upper class than Bushie's, but probably laid out similarly) has a commercial center with big box stores, chain restaurants, etc., but nobody lives in walking distance of those (and there's no sidewalks anyway, so it would be pretty dangerous to walk).  Everyone lives in either formal subdivisions or blocks of streets.  You can walk or bike to a friend's house, but anything more requires a car.

There may be some apartments in Jackson where artsy hippie white people live that don't necessarily require a car, but I bet almost all of them have one.  There may be some of the absolute poorest in the slums who don't own a car and rely on family members and neighbors, but there's enough cars worth like $1000 that most poor households have at least 1.

[7,052,770]

Just to inform the pampered denizens of this forum of the reality of the world, three cars for a household of three people in which only one member is in employment would be excessive even in a very rural area with no public transport (like the upland farming valley that I grew up in). The impression is further reinforced by the statement that one of them was bought new. This is a pattern of consumption driven by lifestyle choices (choices that I'm not judging), not necessity.

Perhaps, but remember Bushie lives in Suburbia, not some rural area.  Suburbs, both in the Deep South and elsewhere, simply are not laid out with the possibility of not having a car.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

Sure, cars are expensive, but I think also a major factor is the resources available to you.  Car pooling, as Memphis mentioned, is a great idea.  The only problem with my current situation, is none of my classmates live close to where I do, so that's not really an option.  I live in an Oklahoma City suburb, but the mass transit doesn't get out this far and neither do the Metro Tech school buses.  So, that option is out.  Now, when I get a job, I will likely live in an area that is close a bus stop, so it is possible that I could take the bus to work.  I'll just have to wait and see until next Spring.

Why would you ever give up that free car that your dad pays for? It seems so unlike you.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

How far is the nearest store? I couldn't imagine living far away from any stores. What a horrible thought! I thought America was all about freedom, but living that far away is so restrictive! I would hope that any poors in Oklahoma at least live close to stores.

No, there are no stores in suburbia, at least not within walking distance.  My suburb (which is admittedly much more upper class than Bushie's, but probably laid out similarly) has a commercial center with big box stores, chain restaurants, etc., but nobody lives in walking distance of those (and there's no sidewalks anyway, so it would be pretty dangerous to walk).  Everyone lives in either formal subdivisions or blocks of streets.  You can walk or bike to a friend's house, but anything more requires a car.

There may be some apartments in Jackson where artsy hippie white people live that don't necessarily require a car, but I bet almost all of them have one.  There may be some of the absolute poorest in the slums who don't own a car and rely on family members and neighbors, but there's enough cars worth like $1000 that most poor households have at least 1.

Really?  It's much different here up in the Northeast.  What you are describing as the suburbs down there is what we would call out in the "country" along the Megalopolis.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The Update's new readers are ruining this show's rebound story arc. Here we have a potential lady for Bushie, and all we care about is debating mass transit in Oklahoma?

Let me make this easy for all of you: there is no mass transit in Oklahoma. Everyone has a car and everyone drives. They have mass transit in the city, sure, but you likely don't want to take it if you have any means at all. That's just the way it is. Who cares? He has a car. He drives. He's like most Americans who don't live in the northeast corridor.

Now, let's get back to discussing Bushie's potential new fianceegirlfriend.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Does he really need to support her though? She's a girlfriend, not a wife or anything. Sure, he can pay for a date here and there, but I never paid for EVERYTHING with any girl I have ever dated. She's not my wife. I have no obligation to buy everything for her.

1. Jeff is probably a "Southern gentleman"; he'll feel an obligation.
2. He has no money whatsoever.  An increase of a single penny is more than he can bear.

Inks, you're right, I have no money to support a girlfriend right now.  $40,000 a year is more than what people think it is.  I'm not going to be dirt poor at that wage.  I made it just fine on $25,000 a year, so $40,000 will be quite a bit easier.  I'll be able to live somewhat comfortably, especially for a bachelor in Oklahoma.  I might have a little money to play around with.

You didn't make it fine on $25,000 a year, because you ended up with over $11,000 in credit card debt.  And how much of your life were your parents subsidizing back then?

I dunno. Cars must be terribly inexpensive in Oklahoma if everyone can afford to have one.  Also, cheap gas, no mandatory insurance and hardly any restrictions on testing. Probably few rules at all.  After all, there's no public transportation right? If any of those things weren't true, there'd be a demand for it. Right?

Liability insurance is mandatory in Oklahoma.  I have full coverage.  There is public transportation in Oklahoma City, but it doesn't extend out this far.  Still, it's just a bus system.  It is so much easier and much more efficient to drive.  Walking takes time.  It takes me 20 minutes to walk a mile.  If I were to walk to a store 2 miles away (which there are none), it would take me 40 minutes to get there, plus 20 minutes or so to shop and then I would have to walk 40 minutes with those heavy bags in my hands.  That is an hour and 40 minutes of time wasted when I could get there and back in 30 minutes.  To me, the time expenditure doesn't make a lick of sense.

Says the man who watched over 50 hours of TV in one weekend.........

Inks, you're right, I have no money to support a girlfriend right now.

Good GOD man, you don't support a gf.  

Yeah, he already eats out for all his meals anyway, so I'm not sure what all these additional expenses would even be.

I have lived off $200 or less per month for food.  Case in point: Utah.  I've done it before and I can do it again.  It's called a grocery store.  Believe it or not, I know how to shop.

I would like to see the receipts for that.  $200 a month is $6.66 a day.  Once you subtract the money for pop, you're already below $6.  I don't believe it.  You may think you spent less than $200, but until I at least see a spreadsheet or some record, I call BS.

Okay, but what does this have to do with not having enough money to "support" a girlfriend right now?

Because he has no money.  A girlfriend would mean more driving (unless she always comes to him) and likely more eating out.  Plus he'd have to find things to do on dates unless they're going to watch football all weekend.

Why do you demand to see nearly every document I possess?  Is there nothing called privacy?  I spill a lot of beans, but I don't disclose everything.

I don't; that's all I needed to know.  The simple fact that you won't reveal it has shown me that you were lying.  Come on Jeff... we know the game.  You do this all the time.  When you don't back up your claims with evidence, it means you are lying.

[Hatman 🍁]

How far is the nearest store? I couldn't imagine living far away from any stores. What a horrible thought! I thought America was all about freedom, but living that far away is so restrictive! I would hope that any poors in Oklahoma at least live close to stores.

No, there are no stores in suburbia, at least not within walking distance.  My suburb (which is admittedly much more upper class than Bushie's, but probably laid out similarly) has a commercial center with big box stores, chain restaurants, etc., but nobody lives in walking distance of those (and there's no sidewalks anyway, so it would be pretty dangerous to walk).  Everyone lives in either formal subdivisions or blocks of streets.  You can walk or bike to a friend's house, but anything more requires a car.

There may be some apartments in Jackson where artsy hippie white people live that don't necessarily require a car, but I bet almost all of them have one.  There may be some of the absolute poorest in the slums who don't own a car and rely on family members and neighbors, but there's enough cars worth like $1000 that most poor households have at least 1.

No sidewalks? Aren't suburbs supposed to be kid friendly? Or do southern kids just play video games all day? I suppose our suburbs are similar (the outer ones anyways), but I've never lived in one. I like being a 20 minute bike ride from work, and being able to walk to the store, and take my daughter to a nearby park to play in the playground. Hell, even Walmart is within walking distance. (which is unfortunate, because I hate the place, but have been sucked in too often).

I'm sorry to de-rail this thread, Duke. But I am genuinely interested in how dystopic the South is.

[Lief 🗽]

Does he really need to support her though? She's a girlfriend, not a wife or anything. Sure, he can pay for a date here and there, but I never paid for EVERYTHING with any girl I have ever dated. She's not my wife. I have no obligation to buy everything for her.

1. Jeff is probably a "Southern gentleman"; he'll feel an obligation.
2. He has no money whatsoever.  An increase of a single penny is more than he can bear.

I'm sure his parents will gladly support his courtship financially.

[Kitteh]

Just because people live in places without public transit doesn't change the fact that many people just can't afford a car. Even something that costs $1000 is out of reach for many people who are living paycheck to paycheck and can't even afford food without SNAP (and even then can only afford an unhealthy bare subsistence diet). I honestly haven't experienced this first-hand, because of coming from a well-off family and living in urban/suburban areas all my life, but it's easy to see when you drive through much of California and see immigrant laborers riding to and from gardening and construction jobs in the back of company pickup trucks or travel through Indian reservations and see dozens of people walking alongside the highway hitchhiking their way to work.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

His parents financing a girlfriend is certainly better than financing other silly things like a minifridge for his room, trips to McDonalds or a new iPhone, etc.

[memphis]

Sure, cars are expensive, but I think also a major factor is the resources available to you.  Car pooling, as Memphis mentioned, is a great idea.  The only problem with my current situation, is none of my classmates live close to where I do, so that's not really an option.  I live in an Oklahoma City suburb, but the mass transit doesn't get out this far and neither do the Metro Tech school buses.  So, that option is out.  Now, when I get a job, I will likely live in an area that is close a bus stop, so it is possible that I could take the bus to work.  I'll just have to wait and see until next Spring.

I didn't mention carpooling, though that's not a terrible idea, if it can be worked out. My point was that it is often feasible for two people in the same household to share a car. It's frequently inconvenient and requires a lot of planning, which is something that you seem to enjoy. The payoff is in the greatly reduced costs. Again, it's a pain and not for everybody. But obviously, you guys don't need to have three cars.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Does he really need to support her though? She's a girlfriend, not a wife or anything. Sure, he can pay for a date here and there, but I never paid for EVERYTHING with any girl I have ever dated. She's not my wife. I have no obligation to buy everything for her.

1. Jeff is probably a "Southern gentleman"; he'll feel an obligation.
2. He has no money whatsoever.  An increase of a single penny is more than he can bear.

Inks, you're right, I have no money to support a girlfriend right now.  $40,000 a year is more than what people think it is.  I'm not going to be dirt poor at that wage.  I made it just fine on $25,000 a year, so $40,000 will be quite a bit easier.  I'll be able to live somewhat comfortably, especially for a bachelor in Oklahoma.  I might have a little money to play around with.

You didn't make it fine on $25,000 a year, because you ended up with over $11,000 in credit card debt.  And how much of your life were your parents subsidizing back then?

I dunno. Cars must be terribly inexpensive in Oklahoma if everyone can afford to have one.  Also, cheap gas, no mandatory insurance and hardly any restrictions on testing. Probably few rules at all.  After all, there's no public transportation right? If any of those things weren't true, there'd be a demand for it. Right?

Liability insurance is mandatory in Oklahoma.  I have full coverage.  There is public transportation in Oklahoma City, but it doesn't extend out this far.  Still, it's just a bus system.  It is so much easier and much more efficient to drive.  Walking takes time.  It takes me 20 minutes to walk a mile.  If I were to walk to a store 2 miles away (which there are none), it would take me 40 minutes to get there, plus 20 minutes or so to shop and then I would have to walk 40 minutes with those heavy bags in my hands.  That is an hour and 40 minutes of time wasted when I could get there and back in 30 minutes.  To me, the time expenditure doesn't make a lick of sense.

Says the man who watched over 50 hours of TV in one weekend.........

Inks, you're right, I have no money to support a girlfriend right now.

Good GOD man, you don't support a gf.   

Yeah, he already eats out for all his meals anyway, so I'm not sure what all these additional expenses would even be.

I have lived off $200 or less per month for food.  Case in point: Utah.  I've done it before and I can do it again.  It's called a grocery store.  Believe it or not, I know how to shop.

I would like to see the receipts for that.  $200 a month is $6.66 a day.  Once you subtract the money for pop, you're already below $6.  I don't believe it.  You may think you spent less than $200, but until I at least see a spreadsheet or some record, I call BS.

Okay, but what does this have to do with not having enough money to "support" a girlfriend right now?

Because he has no money.  A girlfriend would mean more driving (unless she always comes to him) and likely more eating out.  Plus he'd have to find things to do on dates unless they're going to watch football all weekend.

Why do you demand to see nearly every document I possess?  Is there nothing called privacy?  I spill a lot of beans, but I don't disclose everything.

I don't; that's all I needed to know.  The simple fact that you won't reveal it has shown me that you were lying.  Come on Jeff... we know the game.  You do this all the time.  When you don't back up your claims with evidence, it means you are lying.

I would show it, however, those receipts are either not readily accessible or are no longer in my possession, especially the cash receipts.  It doesn't mean I'm lying, just means I can't put together a spread sheet without making up a lot of figures.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Sure, cars are expensive, but I think also a major factor is the resources available to you.  Car pooling, as Memphis mentioned, is a great idea.  The only problem with my current situation, is none of my classmates live close to where I do, so that's not really an option.  I live in an Oklahoma City suburb, but the mass transit doesn't get out this far and neither do the Metro Tech school buses.  So, that option is out.  Now, when I get a job, I will likely live in an area that is close a bus stop, so it is possible that I could take the bus to work.  I'll just have to wait and see until next Spring.

I didn't mention carpooling, though that's not a terrible idea, if it can be worked out. My point was that it is often feasible for two people in the same household to share a car. It's frequently inconvenient and requires a lot of planning, which is something that you seem to enjoy. The payoff is in the greatly reduced costs. Again, it's a pain and not for everybody. But obviously, you guys don't need to have three cars.

I thought that's what you were referring to, my bad.  We need three cars because Mom has to take Grandma to the doctor quite often.  I have to go to the doctor or get my medicine at least every other week and the pharmacy closes after Dad gets off work.

[opebo]

Just to inform the pampered denizens of this forum of the reality of the world, three cars for a household of three people in which only one member is in employment would be excessive even in a very rural area with no public transport (like the upland farming valley that I grew up in). The impression is further reinforced by the statement that one of them was bought new. This is a pattern of consumption driven by lifestyle choices (choices that I'm not judging), not necessity.

Your point is valid, but do keep in mind that used cars are still very cheap in the United States (though not quite as cheap as the used to be - I routinely drove cars that were nearly free).

Yes, exactly. Bushie's family is well-off by any standards, and for rural Oklahoma, they are living like royalty.

No, not so.  They're just very average - living pay-check to pay-check.  Having a few old beaters isn't a sign of being 'well-off'.

[Lief 🗽]

Yes, exactly. Bushie's family is well-off by any standards, and for rural Oklahoma, they are living like royalty.

No, not so.  They're just very average - living pay-check to pay-check.  Having a few old beaters isn't a sign of being 'well-off'.

They just bought a brand new car.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I move that: Inks be prohibited from posting in this thread.

xGrumps

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I don't mind Inks posting, but he needs to stop discouraging Bushie to find love. The man needs some TLC from a lady.