Norwegian woman sentenced to 16 months jail in Dubai after reporting rape

[Mr. Morden]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/18/dubai-woman-raped-jailed-extramarital-sex/2554045/

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[Ban my account ffs!]

Luckily she won't actually have to sit in prison.  She just probably will steer well clear of the UAE.. and rightfully so.

[Mr. Morden]

Luckily she won't actually have to sit in prison.  She just probably will steer well clear of the UAE.. and rightfully so.

As far as I can tell, she's still in the UAE because they confiscated her passport, so she'll presumably have to serve this sentence if she isn't pardoned or something:

http://www.thelocal.no/20130718/norway-slams-dubai-jailing-of-rape-victim

[Cory]

I really, really can't wait until that region socially evolves to the extent of the West.

[opebo]

I really, really can't wait until that region socially evolves to the extent of the West.

We'll all be long dead and our children's children long dead before that happens.

[barfbag]

Things like this remind me of how thankful we should be to live in America. Women are treated much better here. I wonder how long Sandra Fluke would last in Dubai?

[Vosem]

I wonder how long Sandra Fluke would last in Dubai?

What sort of profoundly bizarre comment is that?

[TDAS04]

The Arabian Peninsula sucks. 

[Mr. Morden]

She speaks to the media:

link

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[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

While the article does not make it clear, it seems to me that the incident is likely what would be categorized as "date rape" here in the West.  The UAE appears to be trying to thread the needle between Western business and Islamic culture.  Islam has a low tolerance of alcohol and other intoxicants.  If the date rape would not have taken place if she had not been drinking, does she not share some blame for the result?  I know.  I know.  How dare anyone suggest such a thing.  And here in the West with its permissive attitude towards intoxicants, I'd generally agree it's an abhorrent suggestion.  However, despite the lust with which the Gulf states have been seeking Western dollars, they are not Western countries at all, and on the subject of whether being intoxicated relieves someone of the responsibility of their actions I find the Islamic view better.

BTW, before I be accused of being anti-woman, let me say it's definitely more a case of me being anti-alcohol.  For instance, I favor making DUI manslaughter a capital offense. (Or if capital punishment is banned, life without parole.)

[tpfkaw]

While the article does not make it clear, it seems to me that the incident is likely what would be categorized as "date rape" here in the West.  The UAE appears to be trying to thread the needle between Western business and Islamic culture.  Islam has a low tolerance of alcohol and other intoxicants.  If the date rape would not have taken place if she had not been drinking, does she not share some blame for the result?  I know.  I know.  How dare anyone suggest such a thing.  And here in the West with its permissive attitude towards intoxicants, I'd generally agree it's an abhorrent suggestion.  However, despite the lust with which the Gulf states have been seeking Western dollars, they are not Western countries at all, and on the subject of whether being intoxicated relieves someone of the responsibility of their actions I find the Islamic view better.

BTW, before I be accused of being anti-woman, let me say it's definitely more a case of me being anti-alcohol.  For instance, I favor making DUI manslaughter a capital offense. (Or if capital punishment is banned, life without parole.)

Okay buddy...

[dead0man]

While the article does not make it clear, it seems to me that the incident is likely what would be categorized as "date rape" here in the West.  The UAE appears to be trying to thread the needle between Western business and Islamic culture.  Islam has a low tolerance of alcohol and other intoxicants.  If the date rape would not have taken place if she had not been drinking, does she not share some blame for the result?  I know.  I know.  How dare anyone suggest such a thing.  And here in the West with its permissive attitude towards intoxicants, I'd generally agree it's an abhorrent suggestion.  However, despite the lust with which the Gulf states have been seeking Western dollars, they are not Western countries at all, and on the subject of whether being intoxicated relieves someone of the responsibility of their actions I find the Islamic view better.

BTW, before I be accused of being anti-woman, let me say it's definitely more a case of me being anti-alcohol.  For instance, I favor making DUI manslaughter a capital offense. (Or if capital punishment is banned, life without parole.)

wow

[Cory]

Isn't there something the West can do about this? I mean I hate to sound like this but they should think about biting the hand that feeds them. We will decide what happen to our citizens who reside in our client states. They would be nothing if not for the sword and shield of the West.

They need to be reminded who's the senior partner in this relationship.

[Beet]

Isn't there something the West can do about this? I mean I hate to sound like this but they should think about biting the hand that feeds them. We will decide what happen to our citizens who reside in our client states. They would be nothing if not for the sword and shield of the West.

They need to be reminded who's the senior partner in this relationship.

I hate to burst your bubble man but you've got things reversed in regard to who's feeding who.

I mean I agree with your sentiment entirely, but...

[Silent Hunter]

Isn't there something the West can do about this? I mean I hate to sound like this but they should think about biting the hand that feeds them. We will decide what happen to our citizens who reside in our client states. They would be nothing if not for the sword and shield of the West.

They need to be reminded who's the senior partner in this relationship.

I would hardly call the UAE a 'client state'.

[Antonio the Sixth]

While the article does not make it clear, it seems to me that the incident is likely what would be categorized as "date rape" here in the West.  The UAE appears to be trying to thread the needle between Western business and Islamic culture.  Islam has a low tolerance of alcohol and other intoxicants.  If the date rape would not have taken place if she had not been drinking, does she not share some blame for the result?  I know.  I know.  How dare anyone suggest such a thing.  And here in the West with its permissive attitude towards intoxicants, I'd generally agree it's an abhorrent suggestion.  However, despite the lust with which the Gulf states have been seeking Western dollars, they are not Western countries at all, and on the subject of whether being intoxicated relieves someone of the responsibility of their actions I find the Islamic view better.

BTW, before I be accused of being anti-woman, let me say it's definitely more a case of me being anti-alcohol.  For instance, I favor making DUI manslaughter a capital offense. (Or if capital punishment is banned, life without parole.)

Please, not this "blah blah different cultures blah" again. At least not here.

[politicus]

Its not a classic date rape. She let a colleague escort her to her hotel room because she thought it was considered inappropriate for a single woman to walk alone at night. He then pushed his way into the room and raped her. Its not like she was particularly wasted, she just trusted the wrong person.

Her employer Thomas Lundberg owner of the Swedish furniture and interior decorating chain The One Total Home Experience is up for a scumbag of the year award after firing her for inappropriate behaviour and breach of company rules when she decided not to take his advice of pleading guilty to voluntary sex and "mediating", as he called it, with the police. Since he was her only outside contact during the first two days of the arrest that must have been quite a chilling experience.

[dead0man]

Please, not this "blah blah different cultures blah" again. At least not here.

oh no, is he one of those "all cultures are equal" people?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Please, not this "blah blah different cultures blah" again. At least not here.

oh no, is he one of those "all cultures are equal" people?

The issue is not whether "cultures are equal" or not (a phrase which I'm not even sure means anything at all). The problem lies in the very idea that things like attitudes toward rape or more generally the place of women in society is inherent to "a country's culture", while in fact it is just a measure of a society's level of advancement. There is nothing inherently western about understanding how horrible rape is and showing support to the victims. Lest we forget, the west was just as bad as other places in that regard not so long ago.

[dead0man]

Please, not this "blah blah different cultures blah" again. At least not here.

oh no, is he one of those "all cultures are equal" people?

The issue is not whether "cultures are equal" or not (a phrase which I'm not even sure means anything at all). The problem lies in the very idea that things like attitudes toward rape or more generally the place of women in society is inherent to "a country's culture", while in fact it is just a measure of a society's level of advancement.

Perhaps I'm having issues telling the difference between culture and society...or there is just a semantics thing going on here...I don't know.

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Was it though?  When was it common in the west to jail a rape victim? 

(good luck with that google search!...A, it's gonna' be creepy and B, there is going to be an ass ton of Muslim countries you'll be wading through....I hope your Google Fu is strong)

{to see what you were up against, I did my own search...and of course the the THIRD FREAKING LINK was to a case in Nebraska......a funked up case no doubt, but certainly not the kind of thing we're after here)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Its not a classic date rape. She let a colleague escort her to her hotel room because she thought it was considered inappropriate for a single woman to walk alone at night. He then pushed his way into the room and raped her. Its not like she was particularly wasted, she just trusted the wrong person.

Just to make it clear, I'm not in anyway condoning her rapist.  Still, in a society that has little tolerance for alcohol, it's not too surprising that with alcohol involved that both parties would be considered at fault in Dubai.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Please, not this "blah blah different cultures blah" again. At least not here.

oh no, is he one of those "all cultures are equal" people?

The issue is not whether "cultures are equal" or not (a phrase which I'm not even sure means anything at all). The problem lies in the very idea that things like attitudes toward rape or more generally the place of women in society is inherent to "a country's culture", while in fact it is just a measure of a society's level of advancement.

Perhaps I'm having issues telling the difference between culture and society...or there is just a semantics thing going on here...I don't know.

The way I understand it, "culture", when to describe a region or a specific group of people, covers the underlying moral, philosophical and conceptual traits that are inherent to this group. While culture is societal, not all of a society's traits are cultural (in fact, I think the societal traits that can really be said to be independent from the context of societal advancement are fairly rare). In this case, just like western culture has remained western culture with the progress of gender equality, there is no evidence that the oppression of women is somehow inherent to Muslim culture.

I don't intend to waste time in google searches or stuff like that, but come on, I'm sure you know that, even as far as in the early 20th century, women who claimed to have been raped were, at best, told to shut up, and at worst blamed for it. And as Steubenville and other cases show, it's not like we've entirely moved away from these times...

[dead0man]

I don't intend to waste time in google searches or stuff like that, but come on, I'm sure you know that, even as far as in the early 20th century, women who claimed to have been raped were, at best, told to shut up,

At best?  Come on man, you know that's not true.  Maybe they didn't get the support they usually get today, but the best they got was certainly better than being told to "shut up"

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Indeed, the local culture of Steubenville is horrible....or the society there...I don't funking know, but look how the rest of the country reacted to it.  Is the rest of the UAE or the Arabian peninsula blowing up over this case?


I do agree with you that we in the west still have a ways to go before we are perfect in regards to rape, but we're light years better than rest of the world ("rest of the world" being asia and africa....I'm not sure how it goes in S.America or if you consider them "west" or something else).


But we don't need to go on with this as I agree with the last line in your initial post on the subject that "while in fact it is just a measure of a society's level of advancement".

[Antonio the Sixth]

But we don't need to go on with this as I agree with the last line in your initial post on the subject that "while in fact it is just a measure of a society's level of advancement".

Indeed that's my point. I don't question the fact that the West has been better than the rest of the world for quite some time now... The point is that when you go far enough in history you'll find a point when it was sufficiently similar (maybe I exaggerated when I said early 20th century - maybe it takes a couple centuries, but the point still stands). All I wanted to say is that this attitude is not something inherent to "those people", but simply a consequence of the fact they live in societies that (for plenty of random historical reasons) have a longer way to go than ours.

[dead0man]

Her employer Thomas Lundberg owner of the Swedish furniture and interior decorating chain The One Total Home Experience is up for a scumbag of the year award after firing her for inappropriate behaviour and breach of company rules when she decided not to take his advice of pleading guilty to voluntary sex and "mediating", as he called it, with the police. Since he was her only outside contact during the first two days of the arrest that must have been quite a chilling experience.

Also involved in the firing, Janet Jackson's husband

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