Senate Bill: Atlasian Education Modernization Act (Rejected)

[TNF]

Well this has turned into a massive clusterf**k. Which version are we voting on, exactly? I think it was pretty clear what I posted last was an amendment. The fact that not putting the word 'amendment' in a post and yet clearly indicating changes somehow makes it not an amendment is another example of the inane set of rules that govern this body.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well this has turned into a massive clusterf**k. Which version are we voting on, exactly? I think it was pretty clear what I posted last was an amendment. The fact that not putting the word 'amendment' in a post and yet clearly indicating changes somehow makes it not an amendment is another example of the inane set of rules that govern this body.

The present vote is on 56:34. And considering them as seperate amendments would not halt the vote, unless you were to have withdrawn 56:34 before the vote.

Dude, those "insane rules" are what would have prevented this vote if you had done the same thing with Amendment 56:34 as you did with the two texts above.

As I said before, once you off an amendment, you are locked into a course procedurally. Allowing Senators the ability to post and discuss texts without getting trapped into that, which is not what was done here prevents that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

TNF you always bitch about sh**t being inflexible and then you blame the very systems that  are there to solve that problem or increase flexibility, as being the cause of problem of the inflexibility, even when they haven't even been used and then call for something that wouldn't have fixed the problem.

Recognition of texts as amendments or not based on the presence of language offering them officialy is not in the procedures. You will not find it anywhere and didn't occur at all until 2011. It is an interpretation of the rules that I have developed, which was a response to a series of problems we kept running into, most of all unnecessary votes that dragged on and on and the resulting delays that could be avoided if the Senators communicated with each other and were provided with the opportunity to work out minor differences.

So please get off your high horse and stop trying to turn everything into some damn crusade about strict rules making things go all to hell, when 1) the thing you are bitching about wasn't even utilized here and hence the problem and 2) taking advantage of it would have prevented the situation in the first place and 3) considering your last two suggestions as amendments wouldn't have prevented the situation at hand.

This is a textbook example of why we should be allowing Senators the freedom to work out kinks and minor differences before getting trapped in procedures, which is why I do that with Amendments, TNF. All you see is what effects you, and if it imposes on you, it is a frivolous unrelenting rule.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Your criticisms sound very similar to what people on the left said of Romney complaining about the defict while proposing trillions in tax cuts and defense spending.

The only difference is you criticize both the problem and the solution, even when said solution is not even being used, hence the problem.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

56:34 can still be revised as long as vote has not yet commenced.


The lunch thing will have to be a new amendment though.

As I said yesterday, 56:34 could still be revised prior to the vote starting. Which in and of itself is being rather flexible with the rules. Once Nappy and sbane approved, the best approach would have been to take this post my me and state a desire to do just that with regards to the first amendment.

Hell you could probably have merged the two text together, "revised" them both into 56:34, and with Nappy already approving, all I would have needed to do was call 24 hours on objections to the revised amendment. That is basically BK style rule violation territory, and I would be fine with it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Status: An objection has been filed by Senator sbane, a vote on this amendment is on going at present.

[TNF]

tl;dr

Nay, since there were two amendments clearly offered as amendments that supersede this one. Don't know why we're bothering to vote on this.

Also, offering the following two amendments, in case that wasn't clear the first time around:

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I will shorten it then, if I had been managing the thread with my "evil administrative interpretations", this vote would not be happening.

You kind of trapped us with your complaints by insisting they be treated as seperate amendments instead of revisions of the one the vote had been started on.

I would recommend not ignoring my posts, that helped cause this mess.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Current Situation:
Vote on going on 56:34 by TNF

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Status: Overlaps with present amendment vote.

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Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Napoleon]

nay

[TJ in Oregon]

Do English classes count as cultural?

[TNF]

Do English classes count as cultural?

I would assume not, as I believe we require English courses in the reform.

[Sbane]

Nay on 56:34

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

56:37 on school lunch program, has been adopted, about 30 seconds ago.


We are two votes short on ending 56:34 on school curriculum. Come on people kill it already, vote.

[TJ in Oregon]

Nay

[Gass3268]

Nay

[DemPGH]

Okay, we have six negatives on 56:34. It's finished.

Now we're proceeding to 56:36. Hit it, senators! Go.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Apologies all, FTR I was a nay on 56:34.


On 56:36, my issue is that mandating what all schools will teach, doesn't exactly bother me, what does bother me is assuming that all schools will have the ability to offer this range of courses and down the specific levels suggested in the amendment. As it stands, I'm a NAY

I will be offering an amendment once this vote is completed.

[TNF]

Aye.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Though it does bother me slightly to be mandating all that, I share Senator Polnut's concern and if his amendment to come improves the situation in the regard that he mentions, I would be inclined to support it.

I would say that the issue he raises makes the case for the greater flexibility at the Regional and preferably even at a lower level, with us in the supporting role, to thus take care of those contigency in a specialized matter.

So NAY on the present amendment.

[Napoleon]

Aye

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay

Polnut's concern is very valid, but I do take issue with mandating all these requirements at the federal level. At the end of the day, that's why I'm voting against this amendment. It isn't our job to do this. This is a diverse country, and regions should be able to tailor their education systems to reflect that.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I don't think we're going to be able to get a decent Bill out of this. I think we can write a really well-targeted Bill to establish national standards without all of these cumbersome details which might not be followed through and might not be ABLE to be followed through.

I'm going to move for cloture once the current amendment's vote is concluded.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Thank goodness.

[Gass3268]

Aye