Romans 13:1-7
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  Romans 13:1-7
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Author Topic: Romans 13:1-7  (Read 753 times)
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Miamiu1027
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« on: July 03, 2013, 11:02:27 PM »

generally headlined as 'Submission to Governing Authorities'.  Tolstoy hated the whole of Romans 13, and I wouldn't think you'd have to go so far down the road of a pacifistic-agrarian-anarchist reading of Christianity as he did to have a distaste for it.


-did Paul actually write Romans 13:1-7 or was it added later, for understandable reasons?

-assuming he did write it: did Paul's views on the topic change once he was imprisoned in the late 50s?


-what makes Paul any more special than 'just another theologian'?
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JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 11:57:28 PM »

I'd suggest you get on itunes and look up the podcast titled Reconciling with War.
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Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu
Nathan
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2013, 12:34:23 AM »
« Edited: July 04, 2013, 12:35:56 AM by asexual trans victimologist »

-did Paul actually write Romans 13:1-7 or was it added later, for understandable reasons?

I don't think there's any debate about the Pauline authorship of Romans substantially as it presently exists, but I'm open to being corrected.

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I'm not sure there's any way of knowing, but again, I'm open to being corrected.

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A lot of what's taken for granted about Christian theology on a really basic level was developed from Paul's writings; not only some of the specific flash-point topics that might immediately come to mind, on many of which it can be argued that Paul has been tendentiously interpreted or had less than complete knowledge of the subject (although he still needs to be taken seriously in these areas because they're often more central to the broader points that he's making than one might like to believe), but stuff like the nature of Jesus' divinity, development of the concept of the extent of the apostolic commission beyond the original apostles, development of the idea of Christian life in the world and the establishment of the Church as a community--which we also see Paul heavily involved with in Acts, the final decision that Christianity was to be a catholic religion like Buddhism or the Mithraic Mysteries rather than a type of evangelistic Judaism, and a lot of the discussion of virtue or the Virtues.

Paul in general uses a great number of athletic and military metaphors. It's genuinely difficult to reconcile elements of his writings to a pacifist Christian understanding (although I would obviously submit that such is a worthwhile effort), but off the top of my head there are aspects of the sixth chapter of Ephesians, whose authorship is admittedly the subject of more dispute than that of Romans, that seem to at the very least modify some of what's said in the passage we're discussing.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2013, 04:36:00 PM »

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I'm not sure there's any way of knowing, but again, I'm open to being corrected.

I'm asking if there are detectable traces of a shift in attitudes regarding this issue in the later, post-imprisonment Pauline letters.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2013, 04:38:27 PM »

also, it appears a dude named James Kallas challenged the Pauline authorship of Romans 13:1-7.

http://swordandploughshare.com/main-blog/2010/9/30/romans-131-7-an-interpolation.html


I'm not sure how valuable such insights are, but 13:1-7 does appear a bit 'out of place' or out of keeping with the context, at least to my eyes.  same with Romans 7:12, even more glaringly so.
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Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu
Nathan
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2013, 07:31:21 PM »

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I'm not sure there's any way of knowing, but again, I'm open to being corrected.

I'm asking if there are detectable traces of a shift in attitudes regarding this issue in the later, post-imprisonment Pauline letters.

In that case, yes, I'm not sure since I'm not as familiar with the chronology of the epistles as I'd like to be.

also, it appears a dude named James Kallas challenged the Pauline authorship of Romans 13:1-7.

http://swordandploughshare.com/main-blog/2010/9/30/romans-131-7-an-interpolation.html


I'm not sure how valuable such insights are, but 13:1-7 does appear a bit 'out of place' or out of keeping with the context, at least to my eyes.  same with Romans 7:12, even more glaringly so.

Interesting! I hadn't heard of this before.
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