Why does the Upper Midwest respect religious tradition less than most places?

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

And by that I'm referring to the type of "ethnic religion" thing I often decry since conversion and disassociation with some church no matter how deep your family's history is in it is quite uncontroversial and I've always been told I don't understand this stuff well because "it's not like that everywhere". So I guess the question is why is this the case in the Upper Midwest?

I suspect it's largely because the ethnic lines here are rather blurred and there's more of a generic "Midwest culture" than any different ethnic traditions running alongside each other and might be related to the more laid back culture in general, the "nice culture" of here. Even in my very conservative hometown in North Dakota there was a variation of this as plenty of people would be upset if someone wasn't a Christian, but very few people cared what denomination you were and as a result plenty of people would change denominations for reasons as trivial as moving and ending up closer to a church of a different denomination. So the respect for "religious tradition" in this sense is far less than it is in far more secular places.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Probably because most of it is a hotbed of liberal politics.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Probably because most of it is a hotbed of liberal politics.

The Upper Midwest leans Democratic as a whole, yes, but how is 'most' of it a 'hotbed' of 'liberal' politics according to any but the most fell-clean-out-the-Overton-window standards?

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Also I'm including the Dakotas in what I'm referring to so it's clearly not that.

[Free Speech Enjoyer]

Are you basing these presumptions on personal anecdotes or statistical data?

[Dr. Cynic]

Maybe they think it's stupid.

[memphis]

Wait, people get upset because other people aren't Christian. WTF? Did you grow up in the Middle Ages?

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Wait, people get upset because other people aren't Christian. WTF? Did you grow up in the Middle Ages?

No, North Dakota.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Wait, people get upset because other people aren't Christian. WTF? Did you grow up in the Middle Ages?

Getting 'upset' in a simplistic emotive sense is petty and useless, yes, but if you believe that you know the key to eternal life, it's not unreasonable to be perturbed by the fact that others reject it.

[memphis]

Interesting cultural difference. Here, in the Bible Belt, one would not be socially "allowed" to express displeasure at another's religious beliefs. That would be extremely impolite. You can respectfully say how much your religion means to you and some people do, but that's as much as is allowed.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

It's not really a big in your face thing, just a general mindset, most of the people where I grew up (which mind you is primarily a retirement community for olds from rural North Dakota) have the mindset you can't be a "good person" unless you're religious and those who aren't are "unguided" and all that. I get the same vibe in rural western Minnesota where my grandparents are from. But the actual denomination is quite unimportant. If you converted just because you moved and now live closer to a church of a different denomination, that'd be considered perfectly legitimate (and is actually something I've heard of more than once.) Even the same in the Twin Cities. No one would consider you a culture traitor or anything like that. It's the polar opposite of what I'm told is the attitude in places like Ireland or even most of Europe or certain places in the Northeast, where people believe if you're born into something you're that for life and can't leave and if you do convert you're some type of nutjob.

Something noteworthy is that many churches' Christian youth groups in high school marketed themselves as basically OK for everyone and emphasized "We don't care what you were raised in, you're welcome." Now that might not be an unusual thing at all if geared toward adults (like that was basically the case with all campus Christian groups in college), but it seems for teenagers still theoretically under control of their parents this might not go over well in some places that don't have as open attitudes about this. Unless I'm reading things wrong. Would your average Irish Catholic northeastern couple really have a problem with their kid going to a Protestant youth group? Before being told certain things I would assume they probably wouldn't care either...Would most such people refuse to attend or film their niece/nephew's adult baptism and be disgusted by it? Because my Catholic aunt had no problem with it or going there and I don't see her view changing if I was baptized Catholic as a baby either. None of my Lutheran relatives were bothered either of course.

[DC Al Fine]

Something noteworthy is that many churches' Christian youth groups in high school marketed themselves as basically OK for everyone and emphasized "We don't care what you were raised in, you're welcome." Now that might not be an unusual thing at all if geared toward adults (like that was basically the case with all campus Christian groups in college), but it seems for teenagers still theoretically under control of their parents this might not go over well in some places that don't have as open attitudes about this. Unless I'm reading things wrong. Would your average Irish Catholic northeastern couple really have a problem with their kid going to a Protestant youth group? Before being told certain things I would assume they probably wouldn't care either...Would most such people refuse to attend or film their niece/nephew's adult baptism and be disgusted by it? Because my Catholic aunt had no problem with it or going there and I don't see her view changing if I was baptized Catholic as a baby either. None of my Lutheran relatives were bothered either of course.

I think that might be more a reflection of the general loosening of denominational attitudes than of the Midwest in particular. People just don't have the emotional ties to a particular sect like they used to.

EDIT: And yes there are certainly some denominational snobs (Catholics & Reformed come to mind), but the emphasis on theology and distinct practices has really dropped. Look at how many denominational churches call themselves "Community Church" and the like.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Something noteworthy is that many churches' Christian youth groups in high school marketed themselves as basically OK for everyone and emphasized "We don't care what you were raised in, you're welcome." Now that might not be an unusual thing at all if geared toward adults (like that was basically the case with all campus Christian groups in college), but it seems for teenagers still theoretically under control of their parents this might not go over well in some places that don't have as open attitudes about this. Unless I'm reading things wrong. Would your average Irish Catholic northeastern couple really have a problem with their kid going to a Protestant youth group? Before being told certain things I would assume they probably wouldn't care either...Would most such people refuse to attend or film their niece/nephew's adult baptism and be disgusted by it? Because my Catholic aunt had no problem with it or going there and I don't see her view changing if I was baptized Catholic as a baby either. None of my Lutheran relatives were bothered either of course.

I think that might be more a reflection of the general loosening of denominational attitudes than of the Midwest in particular. People just don't have the emotional ties to a particular sect like they used to.

That's what I thought too, but other people have always insisted to me that it's so much different in other places.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Something noteworthy is that many churches' Christian youth groups in high school marketed themselves as basically OK for everyone and emphasized "We don't care what you were raised in, you're welcome." Now that might not be an unusual thing at all if geared toward adults (like that was basically the case with all campus Christian groups in college), but it seems for teenagers still theoretically under control of their parents this might not go over well in some places that don't have as open attitudes about this. Unless I'm reading things wrong. Would your average Irish Catholic northeastern couple really have a problem with their kid going to a Protestant youth group? Before being told certain things I would assume they probably wouldn't care either...Would most such people refuse to attend or film their niece/nephew's adult baptism and be disgusted by it? Because my Catholic aunt had no problem with it or going there and I don't see her view changing if I was baptized Catholic as a baby either. None of my Lutheran relatives were bothered either of course.

I think that might be more a reflection of the general loosening of denominational attitudes than of the Midwest in particular. People just don't have the emotional ties to a particular sect like they used to.

That's what I thought too, but other people have always insisted to me that it's so much different in other places.

At least among Catholics and more traditional Protestants in the Northeast, the sensibility isn't such 'some kind of nutjob' as 'a bit of a flake'. It's not as if conversion is nonexistent or anything, but like in a lot of Europe, lapsing from something but still on some level identifying with it, even if it's only for a while before one finds something else, is more common than immediately switching affiliation out of hand.

I'm considering the possibility of going to a Lutheran church many or most weeks after a planned move because it's sufficiently closer than any Episcopal churches, but I'm still going to perceive myself as an Episcopalian, because I'll to go an Episcopal church whenever possible and the two churches are in full communion anyway.

[DC Al Fine]

Something noteworthy is that many churches' Christian youth groups in high school marketed themselves as basically OK for everyone and emphasized "We don't care what you were raised in, you're welcome." Now that might not be an unusual thing at all if geared toward adults (like that was basically the case with all campus Christian groups in college), but it seems for teenagers still theoretically under control of their parents this might not go over well in some places that don't have as open attitudes about this. Unless I'm reading things wrong. Would your average Irish Catholic northeastern couple really have a problem with their kid going to a Protestant youth group? Before being told certain things I would assume they probably wouldn't care either...Would most such people refuse to attend or film their niece/nephew's adult baptism and be disgusted by it? Because my Catholic aunt had no problem with it or going there and I don't see her view changing if I was baptized Catholic as a baby either. None of my Lutheran relatives were bothered either of course.

I think that might be more a reflection of the general loosening of denominational attitudes than of the Midwest in particular. People just don't have the emotional ties to a particular sect like they used to.

That's what I thought too, but other people have always insisted to me that it's so much different in other places.

At least among Catholics and more traditional Protestants in the Northeast, the sensibility isn't such 'some kind of nutjob' as 'a bit of a flake'. It's not as if conversion is nonexistent or anything, but like in a lot of Europe, lapsing from something but still on some level identifying with it, even if it's only for a while before one finds something else, is more common than immediately switching affiliation out of hand.

Catholicism: My dad converted from Catholicism in his teens. His family's attitude is nagging, similar to if he had stopped going to church without denying the faith. They don't shun him, but they do wish he'd go back to their church. Picture a New York Jewish mom saying "Why can't you marry a nice Jewish girl?"

Protestantism: Nathan's comment about flakiness is definitely correct with traditional Protestants. We tend to be denominational snobs and view people who go the non-denominational route as "lightweights".